Outlaw Model 5000 Multichannel Amplifier Review

[T_F]

Just want to share some of my discoveries here.

Background:
I was contemplating connecting the amplifier (Outlaw 5000x) directly to either a USB DAC or internal PC sound card, in order to get rid of the problematic (and arguably low performing) Denon AVR. My concern was the low sensitivity input of the Outlaw (1.2v) compared to the common 2 volt (or so) of the 3.5mm output jack from an ordinary computer/sound card.

Setup:
Amp: Outlaw 5000x
Speakers: Klipsch RP-280F
Cable: A cheap 3.5mm to dual male RCA.
External USB DAC: Fiio E17K
Computer: A standard Dell office laptop

Note: I am only increasing the volume until it is “loud”, but not more in order to protect the speakers/amp.

Result:
USB DAC:
+ No hum (or what I could tell)
- At volume “34”, Windows could go max ~60%

Laptop 3.5mm headphone output jack:
- Hum
- Volume could go max 28%

Conclusion:
The standard 3.5mm output voltage is far too strong for the amp. 50% volume in Windows could potentially blow the speakers. Due to Windows unreliability with suddenly maxing the volume some times (e.g. some apps will automatically max the volume when switched to), an internal sound card directly connected to the amp could be far too dangerous. You need an USB DAC with its own volume control between the computer and the amp as a safety control.

Positive is that the amp sounded really good connected to the USB DAC. I wish Outlaw would have had included some kind of gain control built into the amplifier so that we could have safely connected it directly to USB DACs/Sound cards in case we want to use it without AVRs.

 

[Langeston]

Just want to share some of my discoveries here.

Background:
I was contemplating connecting the amplifier (Outlaw 5000x) directly to either a USB DAC or internal PC sound card, in order to get rid of the problematic (and arguably low performing) Denon AVR. My concern was the low sensitivity input of the Outlaw (1.2v) compared to the common 2 volt (or so) of the 3.5mm output jack from an ordinary computer/sound card.

Setup:
Amp: Outlaw 5000x
Speakers: Klipsch RP-280F
Cable: A cheap 3.5mm to dual male RCA.
External USB DAC: Fiio E17K
Computer: A standard Dell office laptop

Note: I am only increasing the volume until it is “loud”, but not more in order to protect the speakers/amp.

Result:
USB DAC:
+ No hum (or what I could tell)
- At volume “34”, Windows could go max ~60%

Laptop 3.5mm headphone output jack:
- Hum
- Volume could go max 28%

Conclusion:
The standard 3.5mm output voltage is far too strong for the amp. 50% volume in Windows could potentially blow the speakers. Due to Windows unreliability with suddenly maxing the volume some times (e.g. some apps will automatically max the volume when switched to), an internal sound card directly connected to the amp could be far too dangerous. You need an USB DAC with its own volume control between the computer and the amp as a safety control.

Positive is that the amp sounded really good connected to the USB DAC. I wish Outlaw would have had included some kind of gain control built into the amplifier so that we could have safely connected it directly to USB DACs/Sound cards in case we want to use it without AVRs.

Perhaps reducing the speaker levels in your sound card's drivers might be a workaround.

For instance, the UniXonar drivers I use for my Asus Xonar DX allow me to independently adjust the levels of all 8 speakers and the sub to +/- 20dB or so. (Pretty sure Asus' drivers do as well, but they're crap & I haven't used them in years.)

The Realtek drivers for my motherboard's (Gigabyte x570s Master) integrated sound also allow for this, so I suspect most modern motherboards/soundcards do as well, seeing as the ALC1220 chipset is fairly ubiquitous.

If you don't already have the full audio driver suite for your motherboard installed, it might be something worth checking out. (This might not necessarily resolve the hum you are experiencing though.)

 

[peng]

Just want to share some of my discoveries here.

Background:
I was contemplating connecting the amplifier (Outlaw 5000x) directly to either a USB DAC or internal PC sound card, in order to get rid of the problematic (and arguably low performing) Denon AVR. My concern was the low sensitivity input of the Outlaw (1.2v) compared to the common 2 volt (or so) of the 3.5mm output jack from an ordinary computer/sound card.

Setup:
Amp: Outlaw 5000x
Speakers: Klipsch RP-280F
Cable: A cheap 3.5mm to dual male RCA.
External USB DAC: Fiio E17K
Computer: A standard Dell office laptop

Note: I am only increasing the volume until it is “loud”, but not more in order to protect the speakers/amp.

Result:
USB DAC:
+ No hum (or what I could tell)
- At volume “34”, Windows could go max ~60%

Laptop 3.5mm headphone output jack:
- Hum
- Volume could go max 28%

Conclusion:
The standard 3.5mm output voltage is far too strong for the amp. 50% volume in Windows could potentially blow the speakers. Due to Windows unreliability with suddenly maxing the volume some times (e.g. some apps will automatically max the volume when switched to), an internal sound card directly connected to the amp could be far too dangerous. You need an USB DAC with its own volume control between the computer and the amp as a safety control.

Positive is that the amp sounded really good connected to the USB DAC. I wish Outlaw would have had included some kind of gain control built into the amplifier so that we could have safely connected it directly to USB DACs/Sound cards in case we want to use it without AVRs.

First of all, let's clarify the terminology used in your post. When expressed as voltage required for the amplifier to reach rated output, the input sensitivity is high when the specified input voltage is low. So in fact the Outlaw 5000's input sensitivity of 1.2 V to output 120 W into 8 ohms is quite high, that is, the required input voltage is quite low. That, combined with the Klipsch RP-280F's sensitivity of 98 dB/2.83V/1m, that is very high (if the manufacturer did not inflate the number).

The RP-280F can handle a lot of power and the Outlaw 5000 is only rated 120 W 8 ohms. That means before your speakers are put at risk, you should be hearing distorted sound due to the Outlaw amp clipping badly. That is, the amp is the limiting factor, not the speakers.

You should be able to use it's line out to the Denon's analog input via a 3.5mm jack to RCA cable without any gain related issues. Again, if you can't turn the volume up as high as you might expect, it would be because of your Klipsch speaker's above average sensitivity and your listening habits (how loud you listen, and your seating distance). There isn't much wrong with listening with the volume dial turn down to say -35 or even lower on your Denon.

 

[Shazb0t]

I've had the Outlaw 5000X running for ~4 months now in my home theatre system and it's worked very well for me. I think the value you get from this amp with the added XLR inputs included on the 'X' version is hard to beat at it's price point.

I've been leaving it powered on with the trigger mode toggle enabled and using it that way since I installed it. As it's a class H amp, basically Class AB with switchable rails, is it normal to leave the amp powered on all the time and utilize the trigger mode for operation? I'm assuming that's the whole point of having the trigger feature, but part of me fears that leaving it on 24/7 might not be great for longevity of the internal components. It doesn't seem to run hot when in use, and is cold when idling in the "low" power state, but there is definitely some power draw. I wouldn't be concerned if the trigger mode actually turned the amp completely on and off, but that's not how it works.

 

[Docevil]

I have one sent for review. I will post over on Audioholics eventually. It is a standard Class AB as far as I know. It’s the 7000x minus two channels. I believe the 5180 is what the older 5000 was based on. I could be wrong. It is a common manufacturer.

I was told the parts are not the same however. That the Outlaw team has upgraded the 5000x amplifier components to improve performance.

here is a preview if you like:
View attachment 134501

I can’t find the 5 watt FFT on my phone. Compared to the older 5000 this amp has less power supply noise and a lower overall noise floor. Distortion was still at .01% at 147 watts into 8 ohms. THD and THD+N are about the same at all power levels since distortion is what actually dominates.

That mounding around the fundamental is power supply related. It could be fixed with more local coupling capacitance or a different design approach. However it’s also -105dB or better at 1 watts. I think even at maximum output it’s still -95dB. How can you really complain. It’s only so noticeable because of how low the noise floor is.

my full review will have more complete measurements and other comments.

Did you ever get around to doing a review on this? I've been looking around for it but can't find anything?

 

[Matthew J Poes]

Did you ever get around to doing a review on this? I've been looking around for it but can't find anything?

Not yet. I actually just unpacked it.

I mean, I can say this, I measured it before I packed it away. It measured close to spec. Power output was good, exceeded the spec, and S/N was very close. My measurement system is prone to introducing increased power supply noises sometimes, and I am fairly sure the difference between their spec and mine came down to possible groundloop issues I may have introduced. Sometimes I get lucky and I can fix them, but a few amps have been very hard to rid of the groundloop. I can't really explain why. I know that the manufacturer of the audio analyzer has pushed me to buy a desktop and add a good quality USB card, as he claims they are grounded better than laptops. I use a laptop and I don't have a desktop nor intend to buy one right now, so it may be causing some issues for the moment. I wish someone made a really well grounded USB hub, but I am yet to find one.

In any case, I do need to get back to the amp and will do so soon. Since the amp is available again, I can work on the review.

Matt

 

[Shazb0t]

Not yet. I actually just unpacked it.

I mean, I can say this, I measured it before I packed it away. It measured close to spec. Power output was good, exceeded the spec, and S/N was very close. My measurement system is prone to introducing increased power supply noises sometimes, and I am fairly sure the difference between their spec and mine came down to possible groundloop issues I may have introduced. Sometimes I get lucky and I can fix them, but a few amps have been very hard to rid of the groundloop. I can't really explain why. I know that the manufacturer of the audio analyzer has pushed me to buy a desktop and add a good quality USB card, as he claims they are grounded better than laptops. I use a laptop and I don't have a desktop nor intend to buy one right now, so it may be causing some issues for the moment. I wish someone made a really well grounded USB hub, but I am yet to find one.

In any case, I do need to get back to the amp and will do so soon. Since the amp is available again, I can work on the review.

Matt

Awesome, looking forward to it!

The 5000X has a ground lug on the case. I'm curious what your results with and without it connected end up showing in your test setup.

 

[Docevil]

Thanks Matthew, looking forward to it!

 

[Sheepadoodling]

I've had the Outlaw 5000X running for ~4 months now in my home theatre system and it's worked very well for me. I think the value you get from this amp with the added XLR inputs included on the 'X' version is hard to beat at it's price point.

I've been leaving it powered on with the trigger mode toggle enabled and using it that way since I installed it. As it's a class H amp, basically Class AB with switchable rails, is it normal to leave the amp powered on all the time and utilize the trigger mode for operation? I'm assuming that's the whole point of having the trigger feature, but part of me fears that leaving it on 24/7 might not be great for longevity of the internal components. It doesn't seem to run hot when in use, and is cold when idling in the "low" power state, but there is definitely some power draw. I wouldn't be concerned if the trigger mode actually turned the amp completely on and off, but that's not how it works.

I noticed you had the 5000x version, this is the one with the XLR balanced inputs that they have added since the original that Amirm tested. I was wondering if this one too hums a bit as Amirm stated that his son could hear it mechanically doing stuff, switching, along with the hum about 3-4 feet away from the device. I think he mentioned that he could hear it at low wattage, 5 watts, or something like that and the hum was in sync with the tunes. I might be off on that one but something along those lines. How loud is it say in a smaller room, bedroom sized?

 

[Shazb0t]

I noticed you had the 5000x version, this is the one with the XLR balanced inputs that they have added since the original that Amirm tested. I was wondering if this one too hums a bit as Amirm stated that his son could hear it mechanically doing stuff, switching, along with the hum about 3-4 feet away from the device. I think he mentioned that he could hear it at low wattage, 5 watts, or something like that and the hum was in sync with the tunes. I might be off on that one but something along those lines. How loud is it say in a smaller room, bedroom sized?

I have not been able to hear a hum in mine. I can't speak to whether Amir had a grounding issue or some interaction between his power and the transformer in the unit he was testing. The 5000x comes with a ground post and I have mine attached to my AVR's ground post. I don't hear any transformer or unit mechanical hum in my setup.

With the added XLR inputs and grounding post, the price, and the power available to all 5 channels I think the Outlaw 5000x is a steal.

 

[T_F]

So I moved to another building (much older, maybe 80 years old), and now I hear a lot of hum/buzzing from the speakers! The WiFi router is closer, which is the only main change I cannot think of.

Same equipment/hardware.
Same connections.
Same locations of all the hardware.

The Outlaw seems to be very sensitive to the quality of the power outlet/supply of the building. I cannot think of anything else. Crazy it is this sensitive to disturbances.

 

[iLoveCats]

So I moved to another building (much older, maybe 80 years old), and now I hear a lot of hum/buzzing from the speakers! The WiFi router is closer, which is the only main change I cannot think of.

Same equipment/hardware.
Same connections.
Same locations of all the hardware.

The Outlaw seems to be very sensitive to the quality of the power outlet/supply of the building. I cannot think of anything else. Crazy it is this sensitive to disturbances.

I always had to run a ground back to my receiver with this amp. Its mentioned in the audioholics video and here somewhere. I remember having to scrape the paint off the back of a screw before doing it.