Outlaw Model 5000 Multichannel Amplifier Review

[jinn3552]

Looks like they have replaced the 5000 with an updated model, the 5000x. Added XLR inputs and a small price bump. I don't see any differences otherwise.

https://outlawaudio.com/shop/index....-5000x-5-channel-amplifier&controller=product

 

[Vasr]

Looks like they have replaced the 5000 with an updated model, the 5000x. Added XLR inputs and a small price bump. I don't see any differences otherwise.

https://outlawaudio.com/shop/index....-5000x-5-channel-amplifier&controller=product

They have caught up with XLR what this OEMed model was already on the market for under different labels. Sold and discontinued as Carver HTA5A and then being sold under OSD label on Amazon and Direct for cheaper but sell out very quickly (once AVSF folks discovered it to be the same as the Outlaw 5000 with XLR outputs). But Outlaw seems to take longer for QC process (at least more than Emotiva) before they put their label on it and offer better support and warranty.

https://www.outdoorspeakerdepot.com.../200w-5-channel-class-h-stereo-amplifier.html

 

[iLoveCats]

Also has a dedicated ground post it looks like

 

[jamtinge]

if one was to buy this amp and use it for front 3 speaker duty.. how would you connect it? it will be mated with denon 3600.
My main focus is Movie & Game, no critical mustic listening.
i was thinking.. L + R + bi amp centre so just using 4 channel.
Or.. (L + R) biamp + Centre, or is this all myth and should i use just 3 channel? i have 7.1.4 so this amp can't cover all speakers in the base layer anyways.

 

[Matthew J Poes]

if one was to buy this amp and use it for front 3 speaker duty.. how would you connect it? it will be mated with denon 3600.
My main focus is Movie & Game, no critical mustic listening.
i was thinking.. L + R + bi amp centre so just using 4 channel.
Or.. (L + R) biamp + Centre, or is this all myth and should i use just 3 channel? i have 7.1.4 so this amp can't cover all speakers in the base layer anyways.

I have the replacement 5000x for review right now. Haven’t measured it yet, but my ear says it’s fine.

as for hookup, you could biamp if you want. You May get another 3dB of headroom that way. It all depends on your speaker. If I were going to biamp, I might biamp the left and right instead.

keep in mind one of its limitations is the power supply and the power supply is shared. So adding amps does add headroom (as with biamping) but maybe not the theoretical max. I haven’t tested its output yet. But they guarantee that it’s rated output is ACD.

im away for a few weeks but hope to test this, an Marantz Professor, and the Monolith HTP-1 all in one sitting. Let’s see if I’m being ambitious.

 

[jamtinge]

Please enlighten a noob here. I've recently bought this amp (first power amp ever for me) used, and while everything is working fine, i do hear a low buzzing noise from the center speaker. When there is any sound coming out, the noise is completely inaudible. However when its not ( like no dialogue while watching movie) i do sometimes hear this noise and i'd like to fix it.

My questions are
1. Is this noise what people refer to as "hum" noise?
2. Can someone explain what Amirm would have done in this review to fix the issue? He did mention it briefly but not how exactly
3. I did find the Alcoholics review discussing the ground of this amp but i still have no idea what to do being a noob.
https://www.audioholics.com/amplifier-reviews/outlaw-5000/measurements
"My measurements revealed a pesky ground loop between the Model 5000 and my test gear since the Model 5000 uses a two-prong AC connection and my test gear uses a three-prong which is NOT transformer coupled to float the ground. Unfortunately the Model 5000 does NOT have a physical chassis ground so I tied an alligator clip to the chassis vents on the top cover to the ground pin of my APX585. "
I understand connecting one end of aligator clip to the vent of Outlaw but where should the other end go? could it be any metal around the amp?
The amp is currently connected to Denon 3600 receiver.

Any help would be appreciated. TIA!

 

[Matthew J Poes]

Please enlighten a noob here. I've recently bought this amp (first power amp ever for me) used, and while everything is working fine, i do hear a low buzzing noise from the center speaker. When there is any sound coming out, the noise is completely inaudible. However when its not ( like no dialogue while watching movie) i do sometimes hear this noise and i'd like to fix it.

My questions are
1. Is this noise what people refer to as "hum" noise?
2. Can someone explain what Amirm would have done in this review to fix the issue? He did mention it briefly but not how exactly
3. I did find the Alcoholics review discussing the ground of this amp but i still have no idea what to do being a noob.
https://www.audioholics.com/amplifier-reviews/outlaw-5000/measurements
"My measurements revealed a pesky ground loop between the Model 5000 and my test gear since the Model 5000 uses a two-prong AC connection and my test gear uses a three-prong which is NOT transformer coupled to float the ground. Unfortunately the Model 5000 does NOT have a physical chassis ground so I tied an alligator clip to the chassis vents on the top cover to the ground pin of my APX585. "
I understand connecting one end of aligator clip to the vent of Outlaw but where should the other end go? could it be any metal around the amp?
The amp is currently connected to Denon 3600 receiver.

Any help would be appreciated. TIA!

What is necessary is to create a common low noise ground between the amplifier and receiver. You connect something from the chassis of the amp to the chassis of the receiver. The denon should have a ground lug, probably there is a screw or post near the phono input that is designated as such. While any chassis point works usually, this at least ensures its a good ground connection.

If that doesn't clear it up, the next step might be to run a ground connection from the ground lug of the receiver to the screw on the faceplate of the outlet cover (which is earth grounded). That can sometimes make things better or worse. Just depends. On my measurement gear, introducing a new earth ground always makes it noisier. On my home theater, it helps eliminate groundloop noise between all the gear.

In my system I have all the gear "star ground" to a power distribution device that has it's own ground lug. It's nothing fancy, just a big outlet strip with a separate ground lug.

I'm currently using the 5000x in my reference system which is the replacement for the 5000. Supposedly has less ground noise. I didn't try it without the ground connection, but I have zero noise issues in my system and my speakers are very sensitive. When I get back from my sabbatical I plan to test the amplifier in less ideal ways on my test gear to see if any noise comes up with it.

 

[jamtinge]

What is necessary is to create a common low noise ground between the amplifier and receiver. You connect something from the chassis of the amp to the chassis of the receiver. The denon should have a ground lug, probably there is a screw or post near the phono input that is designated as such. While any chassis point works usually, this at least ensures its a good ground connection.

If that doesn't clear it up, the next step might be to run a ground connection from the ground lug of the receiver to the screw on the faceplate of the outlet cover (which is earth grounded). That can sometimes make things better or worse. Just depends. On my measurement gear, introducing a new earth ground always makes it noisier. On my home theater, it helps eliminate groundloop noise between all the gear.

In my system I have all the gear "star ground" to a power distribution device that has it's own ground lug. It's nothing fancy, just a big outlet strip with a separate ground lug.

I'm currently using the 5000x in my reference system which is the replacement for the 5000. Supposedly has less ground noise. I didn't try it without the ground connection, but I have zero noise issues in my system and my speakers are very sensitive. When I get back from my sabbatical I plan to test the amplifier in less ideal ways on my test gear to see if any noise comes up with it.

Found the spot marked as "Signal GND" on the receiver right beside the phono input. this must be what you mentioned. Thank you very much for your help. will keep you posted how this goes!

 

[iLoveCats]

Is your amp and receiver plugged into the same circuit? I have 3 circuits for my AV gear and had nothing but noise problems until I swapped breakers around and got all three on the same phase. I have an outlaw 5000 and a Denon 4400. I have also grounded the 5000 to the Denon as described above. Its very quiet now. If I put my ear to the horn tweeter I can hear noise.

 

[jamtinge]

Is your amp and receiver plugged into the same circuit? I have 3 circuits for my AV gear and had nothing but noise problems until I swapped breakers around and got all three on the same phase. I have an outlaw 5000 and a Denon 4400. I have also grounded the 5000 to the Denon as described above. Its very quiet now. If I put my ear to the horn tweeter I can hear noise.

yes they are in the same circuit. Good to hear you have no hum issue with the same amp and denon receiver. Do you mind sharing what kind of cable you used in doing this? is there any readily aviable cable or you had to fabricate one yourself?

 

[iLoveCats]

Do you mind sharing what kind of cable you used in doing this? is there any readily aviable cable or you had to fabricate one yourself?

I made it. It's a piece of 12 awg green wire with eyelets crimped on.

 

[theking_z]

Found the spot marked as "Signal GND" on the receiver right beside the phono input. this must be what you mentioned. Thank you very much for your help. will keep you posted how this goes!

I ran into the same issue of a buzz noise from all my speakers after I connected my newly purchased Outlaw 5000X to my Denon 3600H. Mine was pretty loud and I could hear them clearly from my listening position anytime there was a quiet passage or I am not playing anything but everything is turned on. I was pretty annoyed as I tried some of the suggestions like putting everything on the same circuit and what not.

After a day or two, I figured its a ground loop issue and I did exactly what was described above. I had some bare speaker wire (16 AWG) in my storage and I cut a piece from the roll of 4 ft length. Stripped both the end, twisted same side 2 wires together and connected the 5000 and the Denon using the ground screw on the 5000 and the dedicated ground screw on the Denon. It's been dead quiet ever since. I cranked the volume of the Denon all the way to 100% while not playing anything and I hear nothing. Ended up being an easy fix and very happy with the amp.

 

[jamtinge]

sad to report i still haven't been able to completely resolve the issue. The noise is almost halved, but still there
1. By the "same circuit" did you mean the same outlet therefore using a power bar to supply power to both receiver and amp?
2. My outlaw doesn't have any dedicated ground screw being an older version. I connected the top vent of the amp to the receiver. is this what you guys did? i also used a bare speaker wire i had laying around.

 

[theking_z]

Have you tested the amp with a cheater plug to make sure it is not a ground loop issue? Just buy a plug from Amazon or Walmart and see if putting that in removes the noise. This is a temporary check for ground issues and NOT recommended to use permanently if it does work.

 

[iLoveCats]

sad to report i still haven't been able to completely resolve the issue. The noise is almost halved, but still there
1. By the "same circuit" did you mean the same outlet therefore using a power bar to supply power to both receiver and amp?
2. My outlaw doesn't have any dedicated ground screw being an older version. I connected the top vent of the amp to the receiver. is this what you guys did? i also used a bare speaker wire i had laying around.

Same circuit = same plug or at least same phase if in a different plug.

The screw you used. They are painted black. You need to carefully use a razor blade to pick and scrape the black coating off the back side of the screw so it's bare metal.

 

[jamtinge]

Thank you very much!
I will try the same circuit, cheater plug, and another grounding point.
It sounds like the issue is that i didn't use the scraped bare screw (used top vent blade which is still coated). Maybe that explains why the noise is reduced but not completely gone.
Thanks again, i will report back!

 

[hometheatrehobbyist]

Forgot to note in the review that this amp does generate a lot of mechanical noise, especially when clipping. It hums and whines to the tune of the source frequency, audible to 3 feet or so. I could not hear it but my younger son with much better hearing could also hear its high pitch sounds when playing at just 5 watts. This was at 1 to 2 feet or so if you are above it.

Hi Amir, thanks for the great review. I have a question on your above comment. Would I hear this hiss noise if I am sitting 8 feet away from the amp? Would this hiss or mechanical noise damage the speakers?

 

[hometheatrehobbyist]

I have Martin Logan motion 60xt for left and right, 50xt for center channel and 4 EMIW in-wall speakers for surrounds. I am looking at purchasing Outlaw audio model 7000x. Do you think 7000x will have enough juice to power up all my speakers? Or do I need to go with something like Monolith amps?

 

[jamtinge]

happy to report back the amp is completely quite now. Had to try a few different combination of power bars and how the devices are plugged in, but whatever did the trick it completely eliminated the occasional hum noise i was experiencing.
Thank you all for the tip and advice!

 

[dcibel]

Hi all,
Just wanted to pop in this thread as a new owner of a 5000x, not exactly the same amp but incredibly similar.

I poked around a little inside, and I don't think this is a straight class-AB design as stated here. It has dual voltage rails so is more likely a class-G circuit, which isn't a bad thing as it stays barely above room temperature under normal TV volumes.

Looking at the power supply board, there are 2 rectifiers and 4 caps per channel, 1 rectifier and 2 caps for the low voltage supply, and 1 rectifier and 2 caps for the high voltage supply. All good so far...The flag I would raise is that all 4 caps are 6800uF rated at 50V. Low voltage taps on the transformer is 21.5VAC, should be okay, but the high voltage taps are 43V which will rectify to a little over 60VDC, a bit higher than what the caps are rated for so short life span may be of some concern with this amp.

On the plus side from my own observations. Noise floor is near silent with my speakers (audible only with my ear next to them), I've no 60Hz hum issues that are shown in the testing here (I used balanced input) and there's nothing bad I can say about the sound either. The chassis and the amp in general is also very well constructed of heavy gauge steel with pem-nut inserts for all the screws and a quality powder coat.