Shimei
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Thank you for the correction!
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Our Beliefs and Attacking Ignorance
- Thread starter Alexanderc
- Start date
Hear f'n Hear!
Except not "Community Guidelines", those rarely if ever are read by newbies. "What Is ASR All About?" or something like that would be more effective, IMHO.
Robin L
Master Contributor
And NOBODY wants to talk about Eris!
Yes, I'm sure Amir can come up with a more click-baity title now that he is earning the big YouTube bucks.
Shimei
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Or our frizzy haired puckered brown eyed lad named Uranus.
What an excellent thread. I have considered starting such a post regarding trolls and newbies. I thought perhaps before they are allowed to post
they ought to have to look at a thread wherein the "truths we hold to be self evident , here" are outlined.
Each person has his own trajectory. Mine is rather long at 52 years of audio. I was fortunate in being able to take an electronics for scientists two year course, in about 1969. At that time I had about a ten year history of building electronic stuff (starting when I was about eight with a crystal radio). I built lots of things from kits and from scratch. So I had a very good background and all my pals and fellows would bring me their amps and receivers and whatever else to fix. In the mid seventies I worked in the industry for a few years. Even back then there were things that I thought smelled very bad. We are reaping the whirlwind of those bad smelling things , just as we are in politics in many many countries.
In politics ad hominem attacks have become predominant. I try to avoid these wherever possible. They probably are a cause of the high rate of marriages breaking up. People don't know how to argue fairly and with decent manners. I am very often amazed at the poor manners people use online. (even here sometimes)
Sometimes the "audio system" is an object of worship, to be praised and showered with overpriced gifts to show ones devotion. Spensive speaker and power cables, trestles for same, special spikes to couple or uncouple to the floor and endless other things to show your devotion. You should never love something that can't love you back.
When I participate in a thead and someone clings to moronic ideas and responds with insults I withdraw from the thread. With or without (usually without) a parting shot and sometimes I even delete my posts. I am always 100% willing to help anyone that asks me for assistance or advice, but I also have very low tolerance for bad manners and ocassionally will call them out. I would prefer it was never necessary. Someone can be forgiven for being incorrect and even being strongly convinced they are correct. But it is possible to do so without being nasty. Sometimes it is difficult to strongly disagree with someone without it appearing to be mean or nasty.
I remember "back in the day" when PS audio had a preamp kit I was interested in but never bought. Then I returned to the audio hobby after about a 25 year absence and here is Paul McGowan holding court on You Tube. I don't like nor agree with many things he says. But even his detractors probably need to admit that he keeps it professional and not nasty. (I haven't watched him in a while so if I am wrong here please correct me) I find similar things with Steve Guttenberg. He doesn't say anything nasty that I have seen though , like Paul McGowan I consider him mainly a salesman. One could say that this "professionalism" might make it difficult for the "uninformed" to determine if they are being mislead. (PS,, Edit)
Hans Beekhuizen( sp?) is another. When I returned to active audiophilia I had a lot to catch up on, and like the aforementioned pair, it took me a while to catch on that he slings a lot of nonsense along with some correct info.
I have worked very hard over the years to build what I consider an excellent sound system. As well as to learn how to do it. It is hard to mind ones' manners when insulted by someone whose only qualifications are , they went to a high end store with a gold or platinum card and squandered a large quantity of their family treasure, with a charlatan. Some of these stores are like yacht stores. If you have to ask , you can't afford it. But we all know that kind of expenditure isn't necessary.
One of my other hobbies / activities is working on my lawn. I like to use power equipment and maintain it myself. There is a truly GREAT YouTube channel called "Taryl Fixes All" The guy has a large repair shop in Indianna south of Chicago. I think he must be filming everything he does. He also is hilarious. Taryl has a line which I love that he uses frequently. "It ain't th Space Shuttle. It's a lawn mower!" To paraphrase,
"It ain't the Space Shuttle. It's a RECORD PLAYER!"
they ought to have to look at a thread wherein the "truths we hold to be self evident , here" are outlined.
Each person has his own trajectory. Mine is rather long at 52 years of audio. I was fortunate in being able to take an electronics for scientists two year course, in about 1969. At that time I had about a ten year history of building electronic stuff (starting when I was about eight with a crystal radio). I built lots of things from kits and from scratch. So I had a very good background and all my pals and fellows would bring me their amps and receivers and whatever else to fix. In the mid seventies I worked in the industry for a few years. Even back then there were things that I thought smelled very bad. We are reaping the whirlwind of those bad smelling things , just as we are in politics in many many countries.
In politics ad hominem attacks have become predominant. I try to avoid these wherever possible. They probably are a cause of the high rate of marriages breaking up. People don't know how to argue fairly and with decent manners. I am very often amazed at the poor manners people use online. (even here sometimes)
Sometimes the "audio system" is an object of worship, to be praised and showered with overpriced gifts to show ones devotion. Spensive speaker and power cables, trestles for same, special spikes to couple or uncouple to the floor and endless other things to show your devotion. You should never love something that can't love you back.
When I participate in a thead and someone clings to moronic ideas and responds with insults I withdraw from the thread. With or without (usually without) a parting shot and sometimes I even delete my posts. I am always 100% willing to help anyone that asks me for assistance or advice, but I also have very low tolerance for bad manners and ocassionally will call them out. I would prefer it was never necessary. Someone can be forgiven for being incorrect and even being strongly convinced they are correct. But it is possible to do so without being nasty. Sometimes it is difficult to strongly disagree with someone without it appearing to be mean or nasty.
I remember "back in the day" when PS audio had a preamp kit I was interested in but never bought. Then I returned to the audio hobby after about a 25 year absence and here is Paul McGowan holding court on You Tube. I don't like nor agree with many things he says. But even his detractors probably need to admit that he keeps it professional and not nasty. (I haven't watched him in a while so if I am wrong here please correct me) I find similar things with Steve Guttenberg. He doesn't say anything nasty that I have seen though , like Paul McGowan I consider him mainly a salesman. One could say that this "professionalism" might make it difficult for the "uninformed" to determine if they are being mislead. (PS,, Edit)
Hans Beekhuizen( sp?) is another. When I returned to active audiophilia I had a lot to catch up on, and like the aforementioned pair, it took me a while to catch on that he slings a lot of nonsense along with some correct info.
I have worked very hard over the years to build what I consider an excellent sound system. As well as to learn how to do it. It is hard to mind ones' manners when insulted by someone whose only qualifications are , they went to a high end store with a gold or platinum card and squandered a large quantity of their family treasure, with a charlatan. Some of these stores are like yacht stores. If you have to ask , you can't afford it. But we all know that kind of expenditure isn't necessary.
One of my other hobbies / activities is working on my lawn. I like to use power equipment and maintain it myself. There is a truly GREAT YouTube channel called "Taryl Fixes All" The guy has a large repair shop in Indianna south of Chicago. I think he must be filming everything he does. He also is hilarious. Taryl has a line which I love that he uses frequently. "It ain't th Space Shuttle. It's a lawn mower!" To paraphrase,
"It ain't the Space Shuttle. It's a RECORD PLAYER!"
Last edited:
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I allow for a certain amount of ignorance in others because I assume(!) that the Dunning-Kruger Effect applies to everyone in some aspects of their lives. Who has time to fully understand everything they encounter?
What happens when Dunning-Kruger meets impostor syndrome?
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For 15 years I have never been able to properly self diagnose my condition.
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Robin L
Master Contributor
Eris, Goddess of Chaos, Discord and Confusion.
ALL HAIL ERIS! ALL HAIL DISCORDIA!
[Also the tenth planet, or planetoid, swinging inside and out side of Pluto's ring, briefly taking the spot that Pluto once had, but Greyface kicked her out because of Greyface.]
See :
Principia Discordia | the book of Chaos, Discord and Confusion | Fnord!
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ROOSKIE
Major Contributor
Well, I suppose my personal issue is with over-generalization.
For example in the case of your comments, it is not easy to back up the notion, nor likely correct that speakers are yet audibly transparent.
It is generally true that straight wire plus gain holds pretty well right up to and until, those transducers get ahold of the signal.
Maybe you disagree, however currently the best science reguarding speaker quality is still essentially subjective. The Harman curves and reference ratings are based fiercely in subjective feedback & probability of acceptance as good. Not fact. (blind feedback is amazing information, however it is still subjective).
In any case many folks coming here do not have a snake oil agenda, they have a hobby or at least they have a new interest after their first experiences with hifi sound.
The big things is to help them in my mind. I mean nearly everyone at one time or another has purchased busted audio product thinking at the time they were smart.
Let us relate to them.
It may actually be at core of the hobby almost no one has the real knowhow in electronics and psychoacoustic.
So everyone is a kind of self made expert and some believe that buying hifi and hanging at your local high end store for over 30 years actually makes you an expert , and having every issue of TAS in your bookshelf .
And even people who design stuff and have knowledge in some part of “how the sauce is made” falls into the trap.
You may be able to design a DAC or amp and still have some flawed idea on what’s audible or not, because your newer paid enough attention to the listening part of it.
I posted this with accompanying comment in a related current thread. It seems to be appropriate here:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?posts/715438/
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?posts/715438/
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OP
- Thread Starter
- #98
This is an excellent post and I’ve followed it from the beginning. @Zerimas is making an excellent point, but one very different from mine. I think this is important. People are going to come here having never heard of cognitive bias. Whether or not they believe in it at first, they will never be convinced if they’re treated like idiots just because things that are familiar to us are novel to them.
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Then the answer has to be a set of stock replies that can be very easily linked to. Someone never having heard of cognitive bias isnt a problem. People being made aware of it and other such concepts, then denying them is always going to end in ruccus.
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Oh yeah. I've followed Sam since he first appeared on the scene, though I was already deep in to the weeds long before that in various philosophy/religion/science forums. Good times! (I've done a couple of podcast debates myself not long ago, just to keep the cobwebs outta the aging brain).
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