Why can't we just ignore inane audio threads?

[Sgt. Ear Ache]

May seem like it. I admit that exaggerated for the sake of agruement.

But let's say 30 watts to increase the whole thing a little, or 40 watts, 50 watts. An amp that handles low loads "fairly". An amp with super duper SINAD. Then you start weighing one thing against the other. The parameter SINAD in the equation then. Or at least I do.

SINAD a good indicator, but taken out of context of amp power, cope with loads what does it give in practice, together with the speakers you have?

SINAD in relation to amp power for a subwoofer amp. How do you weigh SINAD against a lot of power without driving the amp into clipping?

Again, can you point to any threads where someone has argued that a small increase in SINAD alone should be the sole determining factor in choosing something? I mean yeah, if two things are otherwise completely indistinguishable (same price, same build quality, same features etc etc)) and one has a few extra dbs of SINAD, get that one. Why not?

 

[voodooless]

I keep reading:

Why can't we just ignore insane audio threads?​

 

[pablolie]

Again, can you point to any threads where someone has argued that a small increase in SINAD alone should be the sole determining factor in choosing something? I mean yeah, if two things are otherwise completely indistinguishable (same price, same build quality, same features etc etc)) and one has a few extra dbs of SINAD, get that one. Why not?

I could point out several discussions where a 1.5dB difference between products lead to passionate polarization, but I'd rather not - then that'd filter into this, kinda proving the initial premise.

 

[DanielT]

Again, can you point to any threads where someone has argued that a small increase in SINAD alone should be the sole determining factor in choosing something? I mean yeah, if two things are otherwise completely indistinguishable (same price, same build quality, same features etc etc)) and one has a few extra dbs of SINAD, get that one. Why not?

I missed that, if that was your question. Probably not is my answer then. But that wasn't my point. It was just that SINAD is a factor, which sometimes(my impression) is overemphasized on ASR.

And yes, I also weigh in on SINAD. Just to clarify.

Edit:
Incidentally, as others have pointed out, in descending order of importance for the sound:
FR
Directivity
Distortion, noise that is SINAD

 

[DanielT]

I keep reading:

Well noted and written.

 

[Sgt. Ear Ache]

I missed that, if that was your question. Probably not is my answer then. But that wasn't my point. It was just that SINAD is a factor, which sometimes(my impression) is overemphasized on ASR.

And yes, I also weigh in on SINAD. Just to clarify.

hahaha...well we're fast approaching the point I mentioned in my first post where I decide to bow out of the discussion so I'll just re-iterate that the SINAD thing gets brought up a lot here and it's usually a strawman. SINAD is rarely (very rarely) the single differentiating factor in a debate between two items. And I don't think I've really ever seen a thread where someone claimed that a couple dbs of SINAD would make an audible difference.

 

[antcollinet]

I keep reading:

Yep, me too.

 

[Sgt. Ear Ache]

I could point out several discussions where a 1.5dB difference between products lead to passionate polarization, but I'd rather not - then that'd filter into this, kinda proving the initial premise.

Well ok...I'd be willing to bet there was more at play than just the 1.5dbs of sinad though.

 

[DanielT]

hahaha...well we're fast approaching the point I mentioned in my first post where I decide to bow out of the discussion so I'll just re-iterate that the SINAD thing gets brought up a lot here and it's usually a strawman. SINAD is rarely (very rarely) the single differentiating factor in a debate between two items. And I don't think I've really ever seen a thread where someone claimed that a couple dbs of SINAD would make an audible difference.

Closer and closer, well. That's my attitude and has been for a long time.

As I just added in my post 84 above:
Incidentally, as others have pointed out, in descending order of importance for the sound:
FR
Directivity
Distortion, noise, that is SINAD

 

[Sgt. Ear Ache]

Edit:
Incidentally, as others have pointed out, in descending order of importance for the sound:
FR
Directivity
Distortion, noise that is SINAD

I wouldn't particularly argue with that...unless again we're talking about some sort of stratospherically poor sinad. I mean if the sinad is bad enough, the FR isn't going to matter really.

 

[Vini darko]

 

[DLS79]

It makes me wonder. I am just curious about why audio discussions have this sticky ability to draw people in to rehash the exact same ritual debates.

I have quit every other audio forum. But even here, the exact same debates exist, albeit now often focused on the last 1dB of Sinad or such.

The audio community psyche is fascinating. Guess in real life we have either none or one or two people to talk to. But online, hey, let's excacerbate menial differences.

Repeatedly.

Why oh why? We are a ridiculous small group of the population that cares about the exact same thing... music quality. Yet we collectively rehash the same discussions to drive hard and seemingly irreconcilable ritual disagreements.

It's not just audio related, I see it in every single hobby or area of interest have.

 

[DanielT]

I wouldn't particularly argue with that...unless again we're talking about some sort of stratospherically poor sinad. I mean if the sinad is bad enough, the FR isn't going to matter really.

For example, if we're talking crappy old car stereo where its amp was driven into clipping so it cut your ears. There, distortion became a real problem. Incidentally something that non HiFi interested also easily noticed. You know..turn down the sound it sounds terrible. Listen on tablet, mobile and amp clipping and so on ....

But even low powered active speakers can suffer from these problems. Although not at normal listening volume, but at a higher volume. See page 3, #60 onwards in this thread:

Swissonic A305

took some measurements from 3 different A308 active speakers: Could you possibly post these measurements with a 50dB vertical scale, a 20Hz to 20KHz horizontal scale and 24dB/oct smoothing?

audiosciencereview.com

 

[Sgt. Ear Ache]

For example, if we're talking crappy old car stereo where its amp was driven into clipping so it cut your ears. There, distortion became a real problem. Incidentally something that non HiFi interested noted... turn down the sound it sounds terrible. Listen on tablet, mobile and amp clipping and so on ....

But even low powered active speakers can suffer from these problems. Although not at normal listening volume, but at a higher volume. See page 3, #60 onwards in this thread:

Swissonic A305

took some measurements from 3 different A308 active speakers: Could you possibly post these measurements with a 50dB vertical scale, a 20Hz to 20KHz horizontal scale and 24dB/oct smoothing?

audiosciencereview.com

I've lost track of what it is we're even discussing.

 

[DanielT]

I've lost track of what it is we're even discussing.

Me too. But I can at least say:

 

[Timcognito]

I just read page 1 and 5, have nothing to say, but you can find me over at A Call For Humor. I just decided to be inane. I just like what I learn here and this place is great for the technically minded. Merry Christmas and have Happy 2024.

 

[egellings]

If we didn't talk about the same old stuff, we'd have nothing to talk about.

Exactly.

 

[Multicore]

Oh, if that were only true! For a few subjectivists, it's end-game, but for the majority, the bottomless rabbit-hole of upgrade-itis and items that are "new, improved and even more magical" will dog them all their life. Every purchase will produce ecstasy ... temporarily. Eventually, the inevitable let-down will start the search all over again.

Nothing lasts forever, not a spell of binding or a Buckeye/Hypex amp.

 

[audiofooled]

It makes me wonder. I am just curious about why audio discussions have this sticky ability to draw people in to rehash the exact same ritual debates.

Because there's a huge gap to be bridged. If we were to sum the definitions of subjective, objective and paradigm shift, in one sentence, I think it would be safe to say something as follows:

For a person's judgment that is based upon or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions not to be based upon personal feelings, tastes or opinions in considering and representing facts, would be a fundamental change in approach or underlying assumptions.

Before you say I'm full of it, for me this would imply that such a shift in perspective would at least require persons disposition or inclination of learning the facts. To us, they are never willing to learn, to them, we never listen.

But, personally, I like to read when people who know leave prejudice aside and kindly point to the facts. This way many other people can learn if they are willing to, myself included.

 

[Sokel]

Can you point me to a thread here where anyone has suggested that somebody needed to buy a dac (for instance) solely because it has 120 sinad rather than 118 sinad? hat an invalid opinion.

Nealy all the back pages in DACs.here's a couple,just read before couple of pages before my posts (opamp rolling in Fosi's and AIYIMA's too!)

Aiyima A07 Max - Aiyima's new TPA3255 amplifier with mono/stereo output

You are correct that the cost is expensive for the amp and the op-amps, but the outcome you get for audio clarity and sound stage presence is unbelievable. I'm sure that's your perception based on uncontrolled listening. Whether you'd still be able to hear it in controlled listening (so a...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Topping E30 II DAC Review

...I have one I would send to someone..

www.audiosciencereview.com