The pain of being a member of ASR

[Sokel]

For some people their hobby is their fort. People might have personal or social issues and being an audiophile is one of those things where people get to feel as if they are in control. Audio publications and audiophile groups have historically been echo-chambers for marketing statements. This has grown into a cult ideology as the enforcement of subjective views has gone mostly unchecked for many decades. As the market for audiophile products has, until recently, been solely dependent upon this pseudo-science feedback loop, there has been little room for scientific viewpoints - as having a podium used to cost a lot of money. The internet allows for a much less expensive and straight-forward way for opinions to be shared, therefore allowing for less marketable facts to be widely available. This in turn allows scientifically minded companies to start marketing products on their technical merits, and not only on lofty subjective prose and appealing to authority (false authority).

I have a feeling that as with most other post-modernist ideologies, the relative audiophilia will die, if not with the boomers (46-64) then most certainly with gen-x (65 - 80). There is a paradigm shift taking place and this forum is one of the venues this is made possible.

Now, how to deal with cult-members? "Well, I respect your right to an opinion, but your whole worldview will vanish with your death."

(I don't have any friends if that wasn't obvious)

Last world count of millionaires is about 16 million.

So there's clearly a market for people who may want to aim to the luxury market as long as there is a strong or very esoteric (that mostly applies to billionaires) brand recognition.

Is not as simple as "audio" or proven facts,etc.
And that without taking into account people who has an addiction about it and are not in the above group.

I think we look at audio very narrow as items,things often are not about what they are,they are about what they mean.

 

[Drengur]

If you want to believe in objective measurement results, believe in it. I know there can be a discussion about what truth is, what objective results mean, relativism, postmodernism and so on BUT despite that there is freedom of religion in most (all?) free democratic countries.

Var och en har rätt till tankefrihet, samvetsfrihet och religionsfrihet (Gäller inte danskarna).

Translated by moderator. Please post in English.

Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion (Does not apply to the Danes).

 

[RayDunzl]

I keep seeing memes in the ASR that I can't interpret without further internet research, because they come from movies or entertainment media that I don't know. It might be helpful to mention the sources.

Stanley Kubrick - 2001: A Space Odyssey (1968)

 

[RayDunzl]

Possibly @RayDunzl uses electrostatic speakers, which (with cover) would resemble the Monolith in this scene from "2001: A Space Odyssey".

They did produce the Monolith speaker:

Dimensions

73.75" × 26.75" × 11.75" (187.3cm × 67.9cm × 29.8cm)

8 inches wider than my reQuests.

 

[davidc]

Now, don't you start! We can meet up, share a beer and have a few vicious arguments about stupid things if you like! Starting with, American beer tastes like beer flavoured cordial.

Ah... I agree. Best beer I ever had was a Theakston's Best Bitter. As a 22-year-old, backpacking around Europe, thirsty as hell as I'm walking through Amsterdam and I had one for the first time. And the only time. I've been trying to find an importer for that beer for the last 40 years.

 

[Anton D]

For some people their hobby is their fort. People might have personal or social issues and being an audiophile is one of those things where people get to feel as if they are in control. Audio publications and audiophile groups have historically been echo-chambers for marketing statements. This has grown into a cult ideology as the enforcement of subjective views has gone mostly unchecked for many decades. As the market for audiophile products has, until recently, been solely dependent upon this pseudo-science feedback loop, there has been little room for scientific viewpoints - as having a podium used to cost a lot of money. The internet allows for a much less expensive and straight-forward way for opinions to be shared, therefore allowing for less marketable facts to be widely available. This in turn allows scientifically minded companies to start marketing products on their technical merits, and not only on lofty subjective prose and appealing to authority (false authority).

I have a feeling that as with most other post-modernist ideologies, the relative audiophilia will die, if not with the boomers (46-64) then most certainly with gen-x (65 - 80). There is a paradigm shift taking place and this forum is one of the venues this is made possible.

Now, how to deal with cult-members? "Well, I respect your right to an opinion, but your whole worldview will vanish with your death."

(I don't have any friends if that wasn't obvious)

It's cool. Anyone who needs to mask up to hit the internet tells its own tale!

I would suggest checking out what Boomers and Gen X-ers are.

 

[bodhi]

I have a feeling that as with most other post-modernist ideologies, the relative audiophilia will die, if not with the boomers (46-64) then most certainly with gen-x (65 - 80). There is a paradigm shift taking place and this forum is one of the venues this is made possible.

I believe the same. Things seem to be moving faster than I expected already and I like it.

It seems that hifi manufacturers have already given up on younger people <40. Absolutely no effort is wasted on marketing to people not already invested. I guess KEF has made some effort and a lot of money from the active lifestyle offering for normal(ish) people, but that's about it.

 

[Waxx]

There is certainly a crowd under 40 that wants good sound, but they don't fall for the snake oil and expensive pricing of the industry. Many buy cheaper studio monitors, even when they don't have a studio or buy second hand speakers from before the mid 80's. A big part of the sales of brands like KRK and Focal are monitors that go in living rooms of younger people. KRK because many dj's use those, and they are easy to recognise and Focal because that name has a good reputation. Kef is indeed one that sells also to that public, but then the richer ones and a pa brand like Function one also sells quiet a bit hifi setups (they even got a line for that) to richer younger music lovers, also because they know the brand from the clubs and festivals they go to.

But it's a minority who invest in a decent soundsystem, that is true. Most stay with bleutooth boomboxes and IEM's for their smartphone, not a real hifi setup.

 

[computer-audiophile]

I have a feeling that as with most other post-modernist ideologies, the relative audiophilia will die

I would like to present a different perspective.

Audiophilia is more than an ideology; it's a diverse and evolving passion for high-quality audio experiences. Unlike fixed belief systems, audiophiles embrace a broad spectrum of interests and continually adapt to technological advancements.

 

[ahofer]

I would like to present a different perspective.

Audiophilia is more than an ideology; it's a diverse and evolving passion for high-quality audio experiences. Unlike fixed belief systems, audiophiles embrace a broad spectrum of interests and continually adapt to technological advancements.

There may be a grand synthesis, but it isn’t necessarily inconsistent with what @dreny said. The part that is focused on audiophilia as TAS and Stereophile know it is shrinking rapidly relative to headphones, etc. I have yet to see surround take off, but given Apple’s latest moves.

I think we two-channel-on-the-floor types are dinosaurs.

 

[Anton D]

There is certainly a crowd under 40 that wants good sound, but they don't fall for the snake oil and expensive pricing of the industry. Many buy cheaper studio monitors, even when they don't have a studio or buy second hand speakers from before the mid 80's. A big part of the sales of brands like KRK and Focal are monitors that go in living rooms of younger people. KRK because many dj's use those, and they are easy to recognise and Focal because that name has a good reputation. Kef is indeed one that sells also to that public, but then the richer ones and a pa brand like Function one also sells quiet a bit hifi setups (they even got a line for that) to richer younger music lovers, also because they know the brand from the clubs and festivals they go to.

But it's a minority who invest in a decent soundsystem, that is true. Most stay with bleutooth boomboxes and IEM's for their smartphone, not a real hifi setup.

25-34 year olds buy 21% of the LPs, same percentage as 55+.

In general, people under age 34 buy 42% of the records.

The State of Vinyl Record Collecting 2022

What is the state of the vinyl record market in 2022? Vinyl record sales are impressive but we didn't realize the kind of impact they're having!

aagservices.org

(Is 'snake oil' some post hypnotic clan word? It gets tossed around a lot, is it social signaling?)

In general, 'epicurean' hobbies start small and gain participants by age and income.

Hi Fi is about the same.

 

[Rednaxela]

Unlike fixed belief systems, audiophiles embrace a broad spectrum of interests and continually adapt to technological advancements.

Except measurement microphones.

 

[Mean & Green]

They don't. This forum is full of discussions on subjective preferences, like the vinyl thing you mentioned. People, like me, are spending way too much money on stuff that might not be completely reasonable measurements wise. Do you really see much, or any, hostility towards differing subjective preferences?

If not, then what exactly are you referring to with this "middle ground" that needs to be taken?

Occasionally yes.

 

[MAB]

Unlike fixed belief systems, audiophiles embrace a broad spectrum of interests and continually adapt to technological advancements.

I sincerely feel the opposite. Apologies if I don't follow your meaning here. I am never clear on the definition of an audiophile for instance...
I think there is a built-in resistance to new things in the audiophile community. One example: when Compact Discs hit the ground, there was dramatic pushback. I worked in sales at the time, and the negative reaction was massive despite the sound being great and the format being easy and simple for the consumer. We sold Linn and Goldmund, so you can imagine the reaction from the manufacturers and distributors. After working so hard to cast shade on digital reproduction, Linn is fine and making digital gear.

I could go on with other examples. It seems to me most of us resist anything new. HiFi no different, actually seems to me much worse than most hobbies and activities.

 

[fpitas]

I sincerely feel the opposite. Apologies if I don't follow your meaning here. I am never clear on the definition of an audiophile for instance...
I think there is a built-in resistance to new things in the audiophile community. One example: when Compact Discs hit the ground, there was dramatic pushback. I worked in sales at the time, and the negative reaction was massive despite the sound being great and the format being easy and simple for the consumer. We sold Linn and Goldmund, so you can imagine the reaction from the manufacturers and distributors. After working so hard to cast shade on digital reproduction, Linn is fine and making digital gear.

I could go on with other examples. It seems to me most of us resist anything new. HiFi no different, actually seems to me much worse than most hobbies and activities.

There are some bad examples, sure. But as soon as a new brand of 2A3 hits the market, everybody wants to try it out!

 

[ahofer]

I sincerely feel the opposite. Apologies if I don't follow your meaning here. I am never clear on the definition of an audiophile for instance...
I think there is a built-in resistance to new things in the audiophile community. One example: when Compact Discs hit the ground, there was dramatic pushback. I worked in sales at the time, and the negative reaction was massive despite the sound being great and the format being easy and simple for the consumer. We sold Linn and Goldmund, so you can imagine the reaction from the manufacturers and distributors. After working so hard to cast shade on digital reproduction, Linn is fine and making digital gear.

I could go on with other examples. It seems to me most of us resist anything new. HiFi no different, actually seems to me much worse than most hobbies and activities.

Perhaps part of it is our tendency to "break in" to our system's sound (as opposed to the other way around). CDs really sounded different from vinyl and tapes. They may have had higher fidelity, but people had adapted to old media either with their systems and their ears, so the first CD experience was a bit of a shock. I remember experiencing a lot less bass (RIAA curve on my turntable?).

And then we commit the Audiophile Fundamental Attribution Error and blame it on the equipment.

 

[computer-audiophile]

the Audiophile Fundamental Attribution Error

I can always get excited about such great word creations.

EDIT:

Let's recognize audiophilia for what it is—a collective pursuit of audio excellence that transcends the constraints of ideologies.

 

[BlackTalon]

341 posts in this thread before this one. 1,658 more, and it will be full broken in. The harshness and unevenness will disappear, leaving us with a smooth and dynamic forum reading experience. Too bad the trial period with free return ends in only 285 more posts.

 

[xray]

341 posts in this thread before this one. 1,658 more, and it will be full broken in. The harshness and unevenness will disappear, leaving us with a smooth and dynamic forum reading experience. Too bad the trial period with free return ends in only 285 more posts.

Are you saying the thread's Unwatch button disappears after the trial period?
Actually, it kind of does. Unfortunately it's hard to "unsee" some comments that get posted on ASR.

 

[Keith_W]

I think there is a built-in resistance to new things in the audiophile community. One example: when Compact Discs hit the ground, there was dramatic pushback. I worked in sales at the time, and the negative reaction was massive despite the sound being great and the format being easy and simple for the consumer. We sold Linn and Goldmund, so you can imagine the reaction from the manufacturers and distributors. After working so hard to cast shade on digital reproduction, Linn is fine and making digital gear.

When DSLR's first came out, I was quick to buy one as soon as they became affordable. The guys in my photography club were all still on film. When they saw my photographs, they broke with the usual polite remarks and said it's "awful" and "unnatural". One guy said "I am a photographer, not a computer nerd". Photography is different to audio in that early DSLR's were woefully inadequate compared to early digital audio - 16/44.1 is still acceptable today, but 6MP sensors with poor dynamic range are not, not to mention high ISO digital artefacts and low dynamic range. So they kind of had a point.