I had an NAD 758 V3 with some DIYSG speakers that were 93db and the surrounds and ceiling I could hear hiss (the 2 pairs closest to me). Something to consider if you have high sensitivity speakers that are close to listeners.
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Onkyo TX-RZ50 Review (Home Theater AVR)
- Thread starter amirm
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The NAD 758, is substantially more noisy than the RZ50 though...
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So although I agree in principle, I don't believe the issue would be as prominent on one of the new generation Onkyo family AVR's
Review and Measurements of NAD T758 V3 AVR
This is a review and detailed measurements of the NAD T758 V3 Home Theater Audio/Video Receiver (AVR). It was kindly sent to me by a member. The T758 appears to have been released last year and costs US $1,399. The T758 is quite a bit heavier than recently measured AVRs and has a serious...
www.audiosciencereview.com
So although I agree in principle, I don't believe the issue would be as prominent on one of the new generation Onkyo family AVR's
Don't the 208's dip fairly low for bass frequencies?
I can say yes.
Yes. No expert here, but I wouldn’t think it would be a good choice at all to run F208’s with the amps in this receiver.
Am I correct that this model does not have Dirac Live Bass Control? If so, how did you find it did integrating your subwoofer(s) with the built in bass management of the receiver?
It does have Dirac. No it doesn't have the DLBC included, nor can one purchase it with this AVR, I don't believe. It integrated my 2 subs just fine-Due to their different distances to the AVR and the wireless transmitter I may have to get a MiniDSP to improve on that aspect. I have one transmitter for both subs so they are receiving the delayed signal but are 2 different distances from my LP so I imagine Dirac split the difference which is less than optimal.
I thought the F208's dipped fairly low so wondered about his comment. The RZ50 drove them fairly well but not close to the Purifi. As the volume increased driving them in 2 channel w/ the AVR amps the SQ suffered and audible distortion occurred. When switching back to the Purifi the same volume level was crystal clear w/ no distortion and plenty of headroom available from there. I highly recommend running a separate amp for L/R or L/C/R and this AVR will suffice for HT duties.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #187
Here is a quick test of using Topping PA5 as power amp:
Compare to internal amp:
So you get 5 to 10 dB improvement (and much cleaner spectrum). Note that due to low gain of the PA5, this is not fully apple vs apple test but should give you an idea.
Compare to internal amp:
So you get 5 to 10 dB improvement (and much cleaner spectrum). Note that due to low gain of the PA5, this is not fully apple vs apple test but should give you an idea.
This Onkyo TX-RZ50 AVR, once testing is done, will get equipped with 5 channels of Buckeye NC502MP for LCR and rear LR. The AVR should be fine for the 4 height channels.
About the 12db crossover slope though - I will use the AVR with MiniDSP 2x4HD + 4 subs. The 12db slope might work well to give me the opportunity to keep it at 12dB or reduce to 24dB from MiniDSP. The mains having 12dB applied to them might get them more bass than necessary, but I have another trick that might work - I've stuffed the ports of all speakers (Infinity R263 and R162) and this might de-bass them sufficiently to reduce the sub-80Hz response further and integrate well with 24dB slope on the subs (Infinity R12).
Does that sound reasonable?
RndmLstner
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Thanks for the additional test. I think many will appreciate this additional test b/c the product is really attractive in the current landscape for those who use pre-pros due to its price and the inclusion of DIRAC.Here is a quick test of using Topping PA5 as power amp:
View attachment 186533
Compare to internal amp:
So you get 5 to 10 dB improvement (and much cleaner spectrum). Note that due to low gain of the PA5, this is not fully apple vs apple test but should give you an idea.
That's not so much a "trick" as the original intent.
The THX asymmetric crossover concept was that the 12dB HPF would be applied at 80Hz, and the mains would be non-ported designs with a natural 80Hz 12dB roll-off, and that would combine to give a 80Hz 24dB slope.
So, yes, sounds good.
The TX-SR876 I have, sounds great, has substantial built in amps (140W x7 @8ohms, 170w x2... and handles my speakers that drop to 1.6 ohm) - however it blew its hdmi board many years ago... wasn't worth fixing - still great sounding, using SPDIF input (or analogue)
Its a 60lb /30kg beast
I also had an Integra DTR 70.4 - basically the same amp, with slightly upgraded prepro - also great sound
Was never happy with either ones Audyssey... they both sounded best without RoomEQ active
Both could also be configured to BiAmp - but I didn't feel it made much difference to the sound overall.
Prior to the start of this millenium, they made a wide range of excellent Stereo gear - good sound, good reliability, long lasting - many are now collectors items.
They had a bad run of capacitors on HDMI board - which caused a bunch of failures starting around 2008 and trickling through for about 3 or 4 years - and then they had a batch of bad DTS chips, and network board - which were being replaced gratis for a number of years. - So they also did the right thing by customers but yeah - Onkyo AVR's between 2006 and 2016 were not reliable.
Post 2016 they have been reliable, no major issues reported.
Do you the measurements of this ? Subjectively I have also enjoyed onkyo amps in the past. But that was before I got to know how it should sound like. Now I think denon always is superior.
I can second that. The TX-SR 875, 876, 905, 906, 1010, 3007-3010, 5007-5010 had very decent DACs, analog preamps and amplifier boards. They used discrete triple output stages, something not found in even the highest-end AVRs from the competition. For my taste, I would have liked a little more feedback in the amp stages, but they can be modded easily.
But yes, their HDMI boards were wacky.
Now that is interesting! The preout of the RZ50 has harmonics beginning at -100 dB. The PA5 has them in the -120 dB territory. I would have fully expected the combination of RZ50 preout + PA5 to remain at roundabout -100 dB (HD, not SINAD). Where is it picking up the extra 10 dB in harmonic distortion?Here is a quick test of using Topping PA5 as power amp:
View attachment 186533
Compare to internal amp:
So you get 5 to 10 dB improvement (and much cleaner spectrum). Note that due to low gain of the PA5, this is not fully apple vs apple test but should give you an idea.
Both achieve those figures at their optimum setting - each is then put into a suboptimal configuration to connect to the other.... a few db here, a few db there....
(just guessing)
Yes well, my 876 is in perfect condition - except for the HDMI board... sigh...
I am hoping that the new RZ70/90's will be a true replacement for the 876
do we have measuements of any of these ? Reliability is one thing but engineering quality like denon is a totally different thing.
What do you mean feedback here ?
That might be the case for broadband noise but even there, it is unlikely, the PA5 being very quiet.
But I was referring to harmonics, namely 2nd and 3rd. The 2nd is egregious.
Topping PA5 Review (Amplifier)
This is a review and detailed measurements of the Topping PA5 stereo desktop amplifier. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $349. PA5 enclosure looks like their standard DACs and such: Hard to imagine that an amplifier can fit in the same size but here we are. There are large...
www.audiosciencereview.com
- 2nd: -123 dB (blue channel), -134 dB (brown channel)
- 3rd: -119 dB (blue), -123 dB (brown)
- ~ -145 dB noise @ 2 kHz
The TZ50 with S/PDIF in, pure mode on the preout has (pretty much either channel):
- 2nd -108 dB
- 3rd -101
- noise ~ -137 dB at 2 kHz
I believe I just found the missing link. The original test does not contain a graph of "analog in (pure) / preout". Is it the ADC or rather analog input circuitry (assuming that no conversion happens in pure mode) that stinks?
Analog (pure) in 155 mV / internal amp out (5 W into 4 R):
- 2nd: -81 (blue) / -92 (brown)
- 3rd: -82 / -80
- noise ~ 125 dB
The next graph is supposed to be analog in without pure mode even if the graph itself is labelled "analog in (lower gain)"
- 2nd: -80 (blue) / -91 (brown) --> minimal degradation
- 3rd: -82 / -80 --> identical
- noise ~ 112 dB --> substantial degradation
Not sure if this is the effect of ADC/DAC (non pure mode) or lower analog gain, but it degrades the noise only. What is definitely in the chain again is the analog input. Can we have the same picture again with S/PDIF in to pinpoint where the distortion comes in?
Analog in --> PA 5 (does't say whether pure mode or not):
- 2nd: -101 (blue) / -90 (brown) --> assuming channels were switched, this is still about 30 dB degradation!
- 3rd: -114 /-95 --> 10 - 20 dB degradation
- noise -128 dB --> about 10 dB degradation
Analog in with 2 V (i.e. much higher than 155 mV) drivel level and pure mode or not:
- 2nd: -82 / -96 --> slightly better than at 155 mV
- 3rd: -95 / -86 --> about 10 dB better than at 155 mV
- noise: -130 --> about 5 dB better
So HD gets better with higher input and higher attenuation? This attenuator seems fishy!
This is not to say the internal power amps are fine, they are worse than the analog preamp section, but it is the analog preamp section that explains why the combo of preamp and PA5 is still poorish.
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There, were measured test reviews at the time.... but 12 years later, some are websites are gone....
