Noisy digital audio on LG TVs

[pablolie]

Well the issue for me isn't the 81 SINAD, it's the fact that ESS-based DACs reject the horrible jitter from the optical out which causes dropouts of audio. It could happen once every minute or 10 times a minute which makes watching anything annoying at best and unbearable at worst.

I assume you've tried a different optical cable and maybe even cleaned connectors? Toslink ports sometimes attract a fair amount of dirt. It shouldn't make a difference, but I can recall it was an issue once or twice for me. Some optical cables can also "break" if they bend too much.

 

[formdissolve]

I assume you've tried a different optical cable and maybe even cleaned connectors? Toslink ports sometimes attract a fair amount of dirt. It shouldn't make a difference, but I can recall it was an issue once or twice for me. Some optical cables can also "break" if they bend too much.

Yup, doesn't matter in this case. The issue as detailed in the earlier posts is the extremely noisy optical ports on LG TV's causing the excellent jitter rejection on ESS DACs to create dropouts of the audio. I tried two AKM-based DACs connected directly via optical and I would get 99.9% no dropouts.

"Cause: In short, the optical output of symptomatic TVs exhibit high jitter and harmonic distortion throughout the audible frequency range. The default jitter rejection values used by ESS based DACs recognize the extreme noise as signal errors, so the DAC automatically attempts a re-lock of the incoming S/PDIF signal"

 

[wyup]

This may be a solution: a spdif reclocker
https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/digi...galvanic-insulation-24bit-192khz-p-18113.html

 

[formdissolve]

This may be a solution: a spdif reclocker
https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/digi...galvanic-insulation-24bit-192khz-p-18113.html

150 euro solution was already switching to an AKM DAC... but I ended up using a 35 euro eARC extractor instead.

 

[wyup]

But hadn't you already bought a eARC extractor and didn't completely solve the dropouts?
I say this because I did buy one aswell, and just like you, dropouts reduced but didn't solve, so I sent it back.

I bought a USB isolator on aliexpress and that helped the most, still dropouts from time to time, but it improved the sound quality and it works on my Samsung S95B because it supports usb dacs, LG I think it does not.

The easiest solution in my opinion is a SMSL or Topping dac with jitter reduction control. I kept my Aune X8 XVIII dac because I like its sound and I bought a linear power supply and opamp upgrade for it.

 

[5onderling]

With my BlueSound Node I have very rarely dropouts. When they occur I turn my speakers off and on again which fixes it. I have them connected via coax and so I guess they're dac is kind of a problem here.

I plan to upgrade to a WiiM Ultra this year. Hopefully it isn't worse in that regard than BlueSound Node.

As far as I know LGs don't support USB audio out. If you know a way though, please tell me/us.

 

[formdissolve]

But hadn't you already bought a eARC extractor and didn't completely solve the dropouts?
I say this because I did buy one aswell, and just like you, dropouts reduced but didn't solve, so I sent it back.

I bought a USB isolator on aliexpress and that helped the most, still dropouts from time to time, but it improved the sound quality and it works on my Samsung S95B because it supports usb dacs, LG I think it does not.

The easiest solution in my opinion is a SMSL or Topping dac with jitter reduction control. I kept my Aune X8 XVIII dac because I like its sound and I bought a linear power supply and opamp upgrade for it.

The Orei eARC extractor solved the dropouts on every ESS DAC I tried, but currently have the extractor connected to an AKM DAC. eARC has its own issues, but the required lip-sync built in is nice, plus I don't have to switch anything other than Video input on the C9.

 

[jboyer]

With my BlueSound Node I have very rarely dropouts. When they occur I turn my speakers off and on again which fixes it. I have them connected via coax and so I guess they're dac is kind of a problem here.

I plan to upgrade to a WiiM Ultra this year. Hopefully it isn't worse in that regard than BlueSound Node.

As far as I know LGs don't support USB audio out. If you know a way though, please tell me/us.

I have a Viim Ultra on order. I plan to connect the LG C3 Arc to the Viim hdmi.
Currently I am connecting the LG Arc to a NAD 3045 and experience one or two disconnects per hour.
Do you think I will have a more reliable connection with the Viim?

 

[antcollinet]

I have a Viim Ultra on order. I plan to connect the LG C3 Arc to the Viim hdmi.
Currently I am connecting the LG Arc to a NAD 3045 and experience one or two disconnects per hour.
Do you think I will have a more reliable connection with the Viim?

I think if you are connecting via ARC you should be fine.

 

[5onderling]

I have a Viim Ultra on order. I plan to connect the LG C3 Arc to the Viim hdmi.
Currently I am connecting the LG Arc to a NAD 3045 and experience one or two disconnects per hour.
Do you think I will have a more reliable connection with the Viim?

I hope so. Please tell about your experience when you get it. I plan to order mine in September probably.

 

[formdissolve]

I hope so. Please tell about your experience when you get it. I plan to order mine in September probably.

I switched to an Orei eARC box and have zero dropouts now connected to my SMSL DAC.

 

[5onderling]

I switched to an Orei eARC box and have zero dropouts now connected to my SMSL DAC.

Good to hear! The thing is that I'm used to Spotify Connect and AirPlay now, so I still want to have some "smartness". The WiiM even has Chromecast which makes it even better. And I need an additional digital Input for my CD player.

 

[jboyer]

I hope so. Please tell about your experience when you get it. I plan to order mine in September probably.

A week in. Two major updates.
Based on the owner bias, the Ultra, connected to TV HDM ARC feeding the NAD with RCA out seems better. The sub-woofer is connected to the Ultra and Room Compensation has been set.

• TV seems to have more middle and the sub is sometimes overkill. I assume ARC is a passthrough, thus the TV content may be the issue, if any
• Local USB WMA ripped CDs of the 90's: way better than listening via a PC or the USB on the TV. Clarity and presence are amazing.
• Amazon Music - a new experience compared to either FireTV, TV app or PC app. Same as above: it feels like the mid tones are 'cleaner', not louder.
• TuneIn -- a mixed bag, highly dependent on the selected station. I wished they streamed better than 128 kbps.
• Turntable into line in (I am keeping the Cambridge Audio preamp...) VERY successful.

My overall reaction is that it is a very performing DAC and Analog front end to an amplifier. A bit touchy when setting up the IN/OUT values and somewhat annoyed by the sub-woofer out. If you start from scratch, the Ultra is as good a preamp as many, with digital media up front. If you already have a good DAC, it may be worth buying for its added functionalities.

I wish I could reach Internet Radios directly, form their URLs. Some are providing much better streams than TuneIn delivers.
Amazon Music (HD) is pleasant. But their UI is a bit convoluted and hard to manage in the ULTRA.

Time will tell. I believe Wiim has a success in their hands here.

 

[Falco]

A week in. Two major updates.
Based on the owner bias, the Ultra, connected to TV HDM ARC feeding the NAD with RCA out seems better. The sub-woofer is connected to the Ultra and Room Compensation has been set.

• TV seems to have more middle and the sub is sometimes overkill. I assume ARC is a passthrough, thus the TV content may be the issue, if any
• Local USB WMA ripped CDs of the 90's: way better than listening via a PC or the USB on the TV. Clarity and presence are amazing.
• Amazon Music - a new experience compared to either FireTV, TV app or PC app. Same as above: it feels like the mid tones are 'cleaner', not louder.
• TuneIn -- a mixed bag, highly dependent on the selected station. I wished they streamed better than 128 kbps.
• Turntable into line in (I am keeping the Cambridge Audio preamp...) VERY successful.

My overall reaction is that it is a very performing DAC and Analog front end to an amplifier. A bit touchy when setting up the IN/OUT values and somewhat annoyed by the sub-woofer out. If you start from scratch, the Ultra is as good a preamp as many, with digital media up front. If you already have a good DAC, it may be worth buying for its added functionalities.

I wish I could reach Internet Radios directly, form their URLs. Some are providing much better streams than TuneIn delivers.
Amazon Music (HD) is pleasant. But their UI is a bit convoluted and hard to manage in the ULTRA.

Time will tell. I believe Wiim has a success in their hands here.

Is there indeed no option to stream internet URLs directly on the Wiim ultra?

I do see the option of Chromecast audio input. Therefore you could try the Radiodroid2 (which is a front end app for https://www.radio-browser.info/) and stream the radio station of your liking to the built in Chromecast Audio.

Not sure what the max audio quality is that Chromecast Audio provides, but might be better compared to TuneIn.

 

[5onderling]

A week in. Two major updates.
Based on the owner bias, the Ultra, connected to TV HDM ARC feeding the NAD with RCA out seems better. The sub-woofer is connected to the Ultra and Room Compensation has been set.

• TV seems to have more middle and the sub is sometimes overkill. I assume ARC is a passthrough, thus the TV content may be the issue, if any
• Local USB WMA ripped CDs of the 90's: way better than listening via a PC or the USB on the TV. Clarity and presence are amazing.
• Amazon Music - a new experience compared to either FireTV, TV app or PC app. Same as above: it feels like the mid tones are 'cleaner', not louder.
• TuneIn -- a mixed bag, highly dependent on the selected station. I wished they streamed better than 128 kbps.
• Turntable into line in (I am keeping the Cambridge Audio preamp...) VERY successful.

My overall reaction is that it is a very performing DAC and Analog front end to an amplifier. A bit touchy when setting up the IN/OUT values and somewhat annoyed by the sub-woofer out. If you start from scratch, the Ultra is as good a preamp as many, with digital media up front. If you already have a good DAC, it may be worth buying for its added functionalities.

I wish I could reach Internet Radios directly, form their URLs. Some are providing much better streams than TuneIn delivers.
Amazon Music (HD) is pleasant. But their UI is a bit convoluted and hard to manage in the ULTRA.

Time will tell. I believe Wiim has a success in their hands here.

Sounds good.

I personally will not be using the DAC (I know it will probably be among the best) but I'll go completely digital into my genelecs. Also don't have a subwoofer and won't be using the display if possible.

I'm not sure if I want to get a remote for the WiiM when I'll get it. So I can control the volume using it. Currently I use the very bad genelec remote for that since I don't trust the BlueSound to not suddenly set the volume to max. Not sure if I trust WiiM more though.

I don't expect any audio improvement for me, only (hopefully) better more usable software with less bugs.

 

[audiomaestro]

Can someone test this? It should completely fix the poor optical output jitter and noise issues and also eliminate the forced 16bit / 48k resampling.

1.) Connect a streamer or PC via HDMI to your TV and pass an untouched signal to the TV. Example, if using an Apple 4K TV, set it to multichannel LPCM.
2.) Set TV Sound to Optical
3.) Set HDMI Audio Input to Bitstream
4.) Set the Digital Sound Out on the TV to Pass Through.
5.) Connect the TV Optical out to your DAC.

Now your DAC receives an untouched signal, bypassing any resampling or degrading processing at the TV's optical port. The performance should be identical to using an eARC extractor. The optical port will now be able to pass through untouched 24bit audio to your DAC.

This will only work if your input is an HDMI device, such as an Apple 4K TV or PC etc. (Using the SmartTV's internal apps will not get around the TV processing its audio, nor will playing media from a USB port)

 

[DLS79]

Can someone test this? It should completely fix the poor optical output jitter and noise issues and also eliminate the forced 16bit / 48k resampling.

1.) Connect a streamer or PC via HDMI to your TV and pass an untouched signal to the TV. Example, if using an Apple 4K TV, set it to multichannel LPCM.
2.) Set TV Sound to Optical
3.) Set HDMI Audio Input to Bitstream
4.) Set the Digital Sound Out on the TV to Pass Through.
5.) Connect the TV Optical out to your DAC.

Now your DAC receives an untouched signal, bypassing any resampling or degrading processing at the TV's optical port. The performance should be identical to using an eARC extractor. The optical port will now be able to pass through untouched 24bit audio to your DAC.

This will only work if your input is an HDMI device, such as an Apple 4K TV or PC etc. (Using the SmartTV's internal apps will not get around the TV processing its audio, nor will playing media from a USB port)

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but if you are using a pc as a source, why jump through so many hoops? why not go from the pc directly to the dac?

 

[audiomaestro]

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but if you are using a pc as a source, why jump through so many hoops? why not go from the pc directly to the dac?

For PC gaming or streaming video/movies etc while connected to a TV. Or for Apple 4K TV owners, streaming lossless music and watching content through its apps. Doing it the way above avoids the 16bit bottleneck and also avoids any noise and forced resampling by the TV.

 

[5onderling]

I hope so. Please tell about your experience when you get it. I plan to order mine in September probably.

Got it. Sadly I have to report that I have dropout issues. I created a thread in the WiiM forum for that. Let's see how it goes, I don't feel to positive though and might send it back soon.

Dropouts on coaxial output with ARC input

So I have a pretty complicated setup. I use the coaxial output to connect "directly" to my genelc's AES/EBU input. Previously I used a simple coaxial to AES/EBU cable. But now I got (in addition to the WiiM Ultra) an coaxial to BNC adapter, a short BNC cable, Neutrik NADITBNC-M and a normal...

forum.wiimhome.com

 

[pablolie]

If a TV does not support ARC (it's an older TV), but your amp does... is there a point/benefit to use the latter with some converter (provided they exist)?