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New Schiit Yggdrasil with TI chip

CleanSound

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What’s crazy is he writes their most expensive product sounded broken compared to the new one. So their most expensive product was garbage? Shouldn’t everyone who owned the MIB be insulted? Is he trying to shame his loyal fan base into “upgrading” to the new chips?
I lost track, less is more, more is more, more is better, less is better, more is less, less is more, less equals more. o_O
 

majingotan

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Does it mean it now sounds exactly like a Modi+?

Nope. This DAC imparts zero sound signature which is expected of a competent performing DAC. I own 6 DACs with 6 different DAC chips. I can never tell them apart when they’re perfectly volume matched and with my eyes taken away from the comparison

What’s crazy is he writes their most expensive product sounded broken compared to the new one. So their most expensive product was garbage? Shouldn’t everyone who owned the MIB be insulted? Is he trying to shame his loyal fan base into “upgrading” to the new chips?

He’s a salesman running a business first and foremost. I’d argue that most of his customers that pay DACs more than the Modi+ is subjectively leaning listeners. I won’t be able to hear the ultrasonics above 20 KHz anyways and as such to me the performance of a 20-20KHz on a 90KHz bandwidth is sufficient enough for me to pay for this DAC and be part of my DAC collection too
 

ElNino

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One thing I like about the DAC11001B (the IC they use for this) is that it's a voltage-out part. Makes it easier for DIYers to noodle around with.
 

amirm

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Jason Stoddard wrote this; he is a legit EE. I thought DACs have no sound signature? I think the worse measuring Iggy was better then .05% THD+N, which is likely better than human hearing threshold. And he's talking about a double-blind test here too?

What's going on here @amirm ?
View attachment 324490
They don't know how to do a proper blind test which involves repeating the test enough times to rule out chance. And match levels.

On the point of the older generation sounding broken, then they proved us right. :D But no, I doubt that he can hear any distortion in the older generation. I did a level matched against a Topping and could not tell the difference at full volume.
 

CleanSound

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They don't know how to do a proper blind test which involves repeating the test enough times to rule out chance. And match levels.

On the point of the older generation sounding broken, then they proved us right. :D But no, I doubt that he can hear any distortion in the older generation. I did a level matched against a Topping and could not tell the difference at full volume.
And you are one of those who can differentiate MP3 vs. CD vs High Res and if you didn't hear a difference, then I am definitely more inclined to believe you. Just very disappointed for a legit (and talented) EE to go around making these statements.
 

lateralous

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And you are one of those who can differentiate MP3 vs. CD vs High Res and if you didn't hear a difference, then I am definitely more inclined to believe you. Just very disappointed for a legit (and talented) EE to go around making these statements.
He's a salesman, not an engineer. Not that an engineer couldn't lie to make money, but he's not designing these products.
 

DSJR

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Jason's quite candid about it - he does good and great chip based digital and analogue products but finds the tech boring. He likes to set himself challenges in designing circuits (if you're reading this Jason, I do hope I have it right here), so does it the hard way to see if he can attain the simpler better results from discrete circuits for example. Got to say I enjoy his blog posts which to me seem far more honest and in depth than other makers who barely drip feed tiny details to their adoring fanbase and owners, said owners desperately needing education judging by their gear choices and room setups.

I suspect the cheaper Schiit dacs are where most of us would look as they basically do it all in a simple package. Boxes like the Yggi are more for well off tweakers I suspect and not the kind of owners where down to earth factual common sense would appeal especially.
 

lateralous

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He's certainly quite candid about his sighted listening impressions and misuse/lack of use of a DBT when he attempts to sell his products to the technically uninformed on head-fi and elsewhere. His "vaunted engineer" status is absolutely something he plays up to give his thinly veiled sales pitches credence to these uninformed audiences.
 

CleanSound

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He's certainly quite candid about his sighted listening impressions and misuse/lack of use of a DBT when he attempts to sell his products to the technically uninformed on head-fi and elsewhere. His "vaunted engineer" status is absolutely something he plays up to give his thinly veiled sales pitches credence to these uninformed audiences.
Here is my take on this. As a company who is in business for profit (after all, this is not a nonprofit charity), Schiit can still sell to the many uninformed consumers out there who buys into audio BS, WITHOUT making blatant lies (assuming he is lying and didn't honestly buy into his own BS).

The best example of an audio company that does this superbly well is Bryston. They do not make any audio BS claims, their products are well designed. They don't confirm nor deny that if an amp, preamp and DAC measures below the human audible threshold and the frequency response is flat will all sound alike. Instead they let the consumers (and reviewers) create the audio BS aura for themselves, Bryston just won't correct them, instead Bryston just let them be.

That is the best and neutral way an audio company can sell to all consumers.
 

BDWoody

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The best example of an audio company that does this superbly well is Bryston. They do not make any audio BS claims, their products are well designed.

And they have that 20 year warranty.
 

Matias

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PR below, highlight is mine.

“MORE IS BETTER
Introducing Yggdrasil+ MIB, the Highest Performance Multibit DAC in History

November 1, 2023, Valencia, CA. Today, Schiit Audio introduced the Yggdrasil+ More is Better, or MIB, the highest-performance, best-measuring multibit DAC in history. Delivering -118-120dB THD+N, Yggdrasil+ MIB shatters barriers in multibit DACs, while delivering consistently precise performance throughout the audio band. Yggdrasil+ MIB is available now for at schiit.com for $2,599.

“These exceptional results are the result of Texas Instruments’ new DAC11001B IC,” said Jason Stoddard, Schiit’s co-founder. “It has taken the precision DAC crown, across the entire audio band, from 20Hz to 20kHz.”

The DAC11001B is typically not used for audio, but Schiit is experienced at using its custom DSP-based digital filter to interface with ICs usually used in medical and defense applications. The implementation in Yggdrasil+ uses 4 DAC11001Bs, one for each phase, in a hardware-balanced, differential application.

Early listeners liked the presentation of the DAC11001B-based Yggdrasil, with some choosing it over all other Yggdrasil+ variants for their audio demonstrations, and some proclaiming it the best-balanced Yggdrasil yet.

Yggdrasil+ is an easily upgradable platform, and Schiit expects to provide the MIB analog boards as an optional upgrade for current owners in the near future. The analog board upgrade cost is expected to be $800.

“This highlights a key advantage of Yggdrasil,” said Jason Stoddard. “It’s the only completely modular, upgradable DAC, which makes it evergreen. Introduced 9 years ago, it’s perhaps the only DAC of its age that has grown and changed with the times, rather then being replaced by a new product.”

Yggdrasil+ MIB is available now at schiit.com for $2599 in black, $2699 in silver. Yggdrasil+ MIB upgrade cards are expected to be available in 4 weeks for $800.”

Wow, you mean after all that time that a great measuring DAC is also the best sounding one? Who would have thought about that! /s :rolleyes:
 
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GXAlan

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“Statistical” significance applies when projecting from a sample to a population. Has nothing to do with audio measurements.

1) You can use it when testing the null hypothesis that there is no difference between two systems in subjective testing whether blind or not blind.

2) Since audio measurements have variability from run-to-run, you can use statistical analysis to compare two populations to see if the means/standard deviations are different.
 

AdamFrandsen

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Any full scale measurements of the B dac version of MIB, and can anyone tell me how this graph looks in the Yggdrasil implementation of the chip?
IMG_0731.png
 
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aagstn

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I have and enjoy several of Schiit's entry level products. (Mani 2, Magni Heretic, Modi+, Loki Mini+) Their high end DACs though have always struck me as complete wastes of money. l can see paying more for balanced sigma delta a tier up, but that top tier seems insane and multibit seems pointless. That Urd for $1200 is beyond mind boggling as it doesn't even have a DAC.
 

amirm

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Any full scale measurements of the B dac version of MIB, and can anyone tell me how this graph looks in the Yggdrasil implementation of the chip? View attachment 332026
It is not bad. It slightly underperforms even $100 DACs I recommend but it is not "broken."
 

AdamFrandsen

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It is not bad. It slightly underperforms even $100 DACs I recommend but it is not "broken."
I am trying to figure out if it is worth hiring an engineer on Fiverr to do a DIY Dac using this chip, and then afterwards leaving the schematics and PCB designs public, so we can get a well performing r2r at an affordable price - not 5000+ USD - which is ridiculous
 

AdamFrandsen

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I have and enjoy several of Schiit's entry level products. (Mani 2, Magni Heretic, Modi+, Loki Mini+) Their high end DACs though have always struck me as complete wastes of money. l can see paying more for balanced sigma delta a tier up, but that top tier seems insane and multibit seems pointless. That Urd for $1200 is beyond mind boggling as it doesn't even have a DAC.
I agree with the pricing, it is getting out of hand. Also would have thought one would include super audio support on such a device as URD
 

Svperstar

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I can't think of any reason to get the yggy over any flavor of RME, the RME has a ton of features vs the yggy which is just a DAC.

Never heard the yggy till a Head-Fi meetup, it wasn't hooked up most of the meetup. I finally got to hear it at the very end. I was shocked how big it was, other then that I didn't hear anything special out of it via my Sennheiser HD800. I have no idea what revision it was.
 
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