Neumann NDH 30 Review

[chesebert]

Can you describe PRaT and how that would translate to measurements ?


What do you mean with dynamics.
Arguably the dynamics are about the same and when looking at bass response the HD800S shows less compression than HD560S so arguably should have a better dynamic range in the lows.

Dynamic - ability to easily swing from low spl to high spl, but mostly relating to bass response; more punchy. FR does not tell the whole picture as I am sure you are aware of.

PRaT - an imprecise term used to describe a combination of behaviors on a system level, including but not limited to, transient response. harmonic distortion, damping factor, slew rate, settle time and diaphragm control.

 

[solderdude]

PRaT is a nonsensical term rather than an imprecise term I would say.

What are people talking about when they talk about PRaT?

Pace, Rhythm and Timing. So, I have seen this term around for some years, and I think that Pace and Timing maybe relate to perceived transient response. I am not going to work too hard to related subjective language to measurements, that's neither my problem nor my responsibility. However, am...

www.audiosciencereview.com

How can it describe anything when there is no clear definition for it and nobody really knows or understands what PRaT is or what is meant by it? It can mean literally anything to anyone.
I think even the one that coined the term could not explain what he meant and just invented a term for something he could not really define.
It is not clear to me what you 'describe' with PRaT what aspect of the sound is being 'better' is basically what I am saying.

Arguably the dynamics of HD800S are better than NDH-30 (based on modified HD560S driver).
The NDH30 driver certainly is damped a lot better though.
Here too the definition of 'dynamic' can be interpreted rather loosely which is why it is confusing to use the term unless it is clear what 'dynamics' means (punch, forward sounding etc.)

Indeed SQ is not just FR but by far the biggest 'component'. Also for 'perceived' dynamics.

 

[ObjectiveSubjectivist]

PRaT - an imprecise term used to describe a combination of behaviors on a system level, including but not limited to, transient response. harmonic distortion, damping factor, slew rate, settle time and diaphragm control.

Ask 10 other audiophiles what prat is and you will hear 11 contradictory opinions.

 

[Dazerdoreal]

While the frequency response looks great here, I have seen other measurements where the NDH30 does not as look as good as on this one. Some measurements portray it really dark.

There seems to be a rather high dependence on how you wear them, and occsionally drivers just seem to be off.
1)

https://twitter.com/x/status/1561335408398565378

2) https://listener.squig.link/?share=Neumann_NDH30 (Sample 1)

I expect that it is a great headphone if they do their job as promised, but you should be ready to send them back if something is wrong.

 

[jagwap]

Ask 10 other audiophiles what prat is and you will hear 11 contradictory opinions.

Absolutely.

I have my opinion, and if you don't like them, I have others. (© Groucho Marx if he was an audiophile).

It is ultimately can the equipment truthfully portray the musicians rhythmic interplay. It usually comes as a nonsense idea to most that this can even happen, until you hear it.

Then you cannot unhear it...

What causes this is what can cause disagreements. I would suggest frequency dependent group delay, or phase if you like, as one aspect. So bass deviation from uncompensated flat response could be detrimental. So hands off the EQ knobs if you don't know what you are doing. You will likely ruin the musicians' message.

The NDH-30 are one of the better headphones out there for PRaT.

 

[Count Arthur]

Ask 10 other audiophiles what prat is and you will hear 11 contradictory opinions.

Just dial it up to 11.

 

[IAtaman]

Just dial it up to 11.

View attachment 337065

Nice! Given the target market, you don't even need electronics for that to work. A face plate, some rotary knobs and two pairs of silver plated terminals and you are golden. I think it is missing Musicality though. Big oversight.

 

[IAtaman]

This is harman 2013 without bassboost compensationView attachment 283839

Is there some logic to the tuning?

 

[Count Arthur]

I think it is missing Musicality though. Big oversight.

Dang it!, We'll have to change the text spend an extra three years on R&D.

 

[IAtaman]

Dang it!, we'll have to change the text, spend an extra three years on R&D.

Or you can change Tubiness to Musicality. They all have tubes anyway.

 

[Arnas]

These looks good, shame that heaband padding is terrible.

 

[Makahl]

These looks, shame that heaband padding is terrible.

Yeah, but you can buy the HD 6X0 headband padding to replace the NDH 30 padding and improve the overall comfort.

 

[Arnas]

Yeah, but you can buy the HD 6X0 headband padding to replace the NDH 30 padding and improve the overall comfort.

Is this padding broken as a result of trying to fit it in those or was it cracked to begin with?

 

[Makahl]

Is this padding broken as a result of trying to fit it in those or was it cracked to begin with?

Sorry for the late response but I don't think so (the pic is from another forum).

 

[unpluggged]

Nothing but 4khz peak and treble crater.
View attachment 406578

Why is the target so weirdly adjusted?

 

[unpluggged]

its chifi target. most chifi uses harman but with more treble.
View attachment 406688

I don't think it's a good thing to use the same target for IEMs and for over-the-ears, especially in the treble region.

 

[Jimbob54]

@Applesororanges Let's avoid the term Chi fi please. See guidance https://www.audiosciencereview.com/.../lets-avoid-the-term-chi-fi.18243/post-594347

 

[AdamG]

@Applesororanges Let's avoid the term Chi fi please. See guidance https://www.audiosciencereview.com/.../lets-avoid-the-term-chi-fi.18243/post-594347

He gone!

 

[NeverBetter]

After going through some configs for mixing (Oratory, SoundID etc) I've settled on a 3db shelf boost very gradual from just under 100hz and nothing else. Was thinking about something like a gentle 2db boosting shelf starting around 10khz as well. How have you found mixing with these as an additional source to monitors and did you EQ them?

 

[audiophilis]

Hi. I have an issue with my NDH 30, the left speaker isn't working anymore. It might have fell on the floor before this but it really wasn't a heavy fall so i'm not sure it caused this.

It's under warranty but i'm curious if there's any way to troubleshoot this. I've check the cable with a multimeter and it seems fine. The mini-mini jack that's plugged in the headphones has 4 pins though, can anyone confirm the fourth one next to the ground is also ground ?

Thanks