Neumann KH120 II

[thewas]

since when it's plastic? as i know is mdf..

No, its glass reinforced composite material.
Source: https://assets.kef.com/documents/reference/KEF_Blade_Ref_Meta_Tech_Paper.pdf

 

[IamJF]

I wouldn’t say ‘listening and fine tuning are always the last step’ when designing. I’d say listening, measuring and fine tuning are an ongoing process throughout the design process.

Don't overestiamte the ability of what we can hear reliable! We don't have a RELIABLE hearing memory, you always have to do A/B with short switching times. 30cm difference in the room can influence low frequency response more as a different tuning. I build complete prototypes to A/B different chassis/membran materials - it's a lot of work to do this properly.

My aproach - first try to avoid as many mistakes as possible in the design phase. Then make it as linear (or sounded if wanted) in all directions as possible (with a little lf boost mostly). This is already a good sounding speaker. And THEN check it in a listening test (doesn't make sense earlier) - always with a reference speaker cause you get used to the sound quickly.

And this brings us back to the KH120ii - it will be my new reference speaker! It mus not be perfect for this use but needs good linearity and I need to know the behaviour of it so I have a steady reference. And the version ii is for sure an upgrade for this use, will do again for the next 10-15 years.

 

[Pearljam5000]

KH120 II with KH150

 

[IamJF]

Good to see the deeper Waveguide of the KH150 - it beams relatively narrow >1kHz.
That's btw not the setup in a room for a listening comparison - the KH150 have a wider stereo basis and different positions in the room. You should change position on one side. Phantom center is then moving a little but the rest of the setup is more balanced.

 

[JustCoolin‘]

If we ignore the higher SPL, I wonder how much difference there is between the KH150 and the KH120II.

More specifically (but not restricted to that), how much of a difference will the bass make, the 150 goes down to 39, the 120II to 44 Hz. I can relate to that in piano notes, but how much difference will it make in practice when listening to music?

 

[lowkeyoperations]

About 5 Hz difference

The KH120 can still produce 39Hz it’s just down lower in volume at -8dB.

KH150s are down -3dB at 39Hz, 5db difference. The KH150s are almost twice as loud at 39Hz.

So you would certainly notice the difference if listening side by side.

 

[IamJF]

KH150 is a few dB louder and beams narrower - so you can use it about the double listening distance.
I estimate they will sound pretty close to each other. With subwoofer they should be able to achieve Atmos/THX level in smaller rooms. Put KH150 at the front and KH120ii everywhere else and you get a relatively cheap reference Atmos environment. With one of the best calibration systems included and digital inputs for lossles signal transition.
This is the way

 

[Smhcnr0560]

hello, i already have kh120, do i need to switch to mk2 and if i switch to mk 2, will i need a sub thanks in advance

 

[DJBonoBobo]

hello, i already have kh120, do i need to switch to mk2 and if i switch to mk 2, will i need a sub thanks in advance

Yes to both. Also you need 2 extra speakers for your kitchen. The sound is especially bad there. Don't sit on your cash, support your local businesses.

 

[AgentWet]

hello, i already have kh120, do i need to switch to mk2 and if i switch to mk 2, will i need a sub thanks in advance

How big is your room? A do you use them only in nearfield as monitors, or for "Home HiFi" listening in midfield too? I'm thinking about KH120II with SUB and KH150 without SUB. And I'm not able to decide. KH120II are way more cheaper than KH150 and in most frequencies are even better except low bass. My room has longer side only 4,7m and this is exactly 36Hz which can be fully develop nad even boost. It makes me thinking about KH150 only. I think, that KH120II will need SUB for best performance. In case of SUB addition I can't find any reason for KH150. A asked Neumann "specialist" for differences between KH150 and KH120II and except woofer size and cabinet size there are any. Same power, same DSP, same tweeter,....

 

[DJBonoBobo]

How big is your room? A do you use them only in nearfield as monitors, or for "Home HiFi" listening in midfield too? I'm thinking about KH120II with SUB and KH150 without SUB. And I'm not able to decide. KH120II are way more cheaper than KH150 and in most frequencies are even better except low bass. My room has longer side only 4,7m and this is exactly 36Hz which can be fully develop nad even boost. It makes me thinking about KH150 only. I think, that KH120II will need SUB for best performance. In case of SUB addition I can't find any reason for KH150. A asked Neumann "specialist" for differences between KH150 and KH120II and except woofer size and cabinet size there are any. Same power, same DSP, same tweeter,....

Measurements of a Neumann system in a 4.8m long room: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...n-a-small-room-subs-ma1-absorbers-avaa.27288/

My suggestion: begin with KH120II + MA1 if you don't need the extra SPL of the 150. Add a KH750 later, if necessary.

 

[Trell]

Measurements of a Neumann system in a 4.8m long room: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...n-a-small-room-subs-ma1-absorbers-avaa.27288/

My suggestion: begin with KH120II + MA1 if you don't need the extra SPL of the 150. Add a KH750 later, if necessary.

Or just keep the KH 120, and get the KH 750 along with MA1, to most likely improve the bass response. Assuming that he has some flexibility for a good placement of the subwoofer.

 

[AgentWet]

Measurements of a Neumann system in a 4.8m long room: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...n-a-small-room-subs-ma1-absorbers-avaa.27288/

My suggestion: begin with KH120II + MA1 if you don't need the extra SPL of the 150. Add a KH750 later, if necessary.

I'm not sure if I like KH750. I would prefer some other SUB as Arendal for example. And SPL is only one parameter, low frequency reach is another one.

 

[Trell]

I'm not sure if I like KH750. I would prefer some other SUB as Arendal for example. And SPL is only one parameter, low frequency reach is another one.

The advantage of the KH750 is the calibration that it offers when using the MA1 kit. The KH120 needs the KH750 for calibration while the new KH120II does not.

 

[Smhcnr0560]

Odan ne kadar büyük? A Onları sadece yakın alanda monitör olarak mı kullanıyorsunuz yoksa orta sahada da "Ev HiFi" dinleme için mi kullanıyorsunuz? SUB'lu KH120II ve SUB'suz KH150'yi düşünüyorum. Ve karar veremiyorum. KH120II, KH150'den çok daha ucuzdur ve düşük bas dışında çoğu frekansta daha da iyidir. Odamın daha uzun kenarı sadece 4,7 m'dir ve bu tam olarak 36 Hz'dir ve tamamen geliştirilebilir ve hatta artırılabilir. Sadece KH150 hakkında düşünmemi sağlıyor. KH120II'nin en iyi performans için SUB'a ihtiyacı olacağını düşünüyorum. SUB eklenmesi durumunda KH150 için herhangi bir sebep bulamıyorum. Bir Neumann "uzmanına" KH150 ve KH120II arasındaki farklar soruldu ve woofer boyutu ve kabin boyutu dışında herhangi bir fark var. Aynı güç, aynı DSP, aynı tweeter,....

 

[DJBonoBobo]

I'm not sure if I like KH750. I would prefer some other SUB as Arendal for example. And SPL is only one parameter, low frequency reach is another one.

That's why i linked my measurements. If your room is similar to mine, you can expect a massive room gain just in the roll off area of the KH120II. That's why i suggested starting with the 120II without a sub.
Trell has a good point as well, but this would only work with a KH750.

 

[Smhcnr0560]

benim yatak odam 13m2

 

[IamJF]

@AgentWet Having a sub is not about getting deeper sound or play louder! Ok, maybe a little ;-)
A subwoofer can positioned in the room whre it has the best response. You can't do this with the main speakers - they need to form the stereo triangel. So EVERY listening scenario benefits from a PROPER subwoofer setup - when you find the best place for it.

What do you dislike with the KH750? It's not cheap. But the rest is very good and you have one of the best calibration systems money can buy. It's the perfect fit.

 

[IamJF]

hello, i already have kh120, do i need to switch to mk2 and if i switch to mk 2, will i need a sub thanks in advance

Your KH120 will not stop working, even when v2 arives. You don't have to switch.
If you want to upgrade your sound you can add KH750 + Measurement mic or use KH120ii + measurement mic and sell the speakers you have now.

 

[Trell]

That's why i linked my measurements. If your room is similar to mine, you can expect a massive room gain just in the roll off area of the KH120II. That's why i suggested starting with the 120II without a sub.
Trell has a good point as well, but this would only work with a KH750.

If he had a measurement microphone, like the UMIK-1, he could could make a more informed decision.

In my case the placement of the Genelec 8330A is quite constrained but the subwoofer Genelec 7360A has more leeway. Below is for my left monitor along with the subwoofer, so for me the subwoofer increased the sound quality for most of my content.