Neumann KH120 II Monitor Review

[IamJF]

I apologize if this has been asked (and if so, would appreciate if someone can link me to it), but does anyone have thoughts on how Dirac Live compares to Neuman's room correction? Preferably including a KH 750 sub.

I have a Dirac-live equipped MiniDSP DDRC-24 and a UMIK-1 measurement mic and am thinking of grabbing the KH120 + KH750 setup. It would be nice to simplify my setup a little bit and just use the Neumann options, but I'm wondering how they compare. I had the KH120As many years ago and loved them, so if Dirac is the better option maybe I'll just get a used pair of those.

I would for sure go with MA1 in this case to get rid of this MiniDSP (which really has not great converters) and use the digital input of the neumanns if possible.
Both measurement programs work good.

 

[namcheonbee]

Hi,

Advancing in age guy here. Not up to date on the modern choices for speakers. Would the Neumann KH120 A or ii be suitable for me?
I want to downsize from multiple boxes. Wife says there are too many boxes, cables. From my point of view, there seems to be a bit of uncontrolled bass in my small living room.
I read a lot about room correction (although I don't really understand how it all works, but have read bass problems can be helped with 'room correction')?
My current set up is computer or CD player - Integrated Amp - RME ADI-2 DAC - Focal Electra 1008BE speakers.
I'm thinking Computer - RME ADI-2 DAC - Neumann KH120 A or ii
Listening distance is 2.5/3m. Room is 4.5mx4m, with an opening to the kitchen (1.5m)
I would also like to place the speakers on the ends of the TV/audio rack with isoacoustic isolation stands? (frees up even more space)

Would Neumann KH120 work? Neumann KH80 + subwoofer? Another brand?

Budget is around $2000 or perhaps a little or more higher if the right choice. Music usage mostly (rock, EDM, chill out, some classical), with TV on occasions.

Thanks for any thoughts.

 

[IamJF]

I would suggest at least KH120ii for your room and distance and when you need deeper bass just add 1-2 KH750 over time.
You can (and should?) use the digital input of these speakers and add a device for streaming and digital volume control. (WiiM would work but has no volume knob)

MA1 will help to adapt the speaker to your room - it can not SOLVE room problems but tame some of them. And you can add your custom EQ curve - when you want a few dB more Bass or a little fall off of the frequency response to get a warmer tone - just a few clicks.

 

[boxerfan88]

Listening distance is 2.5/3m. Room is 4.5mx4m, with an opening to the kitchen (1.5m)
I would also like to place the speakers on the ends of the TV/audio rack with isoacoustic isolation stands? (frees up even more space)

Would Neumann KH120 work? Neumann KH80 + subwoofer? Another brand?

I’d recommend to move up to at least a KH150. 3m is considered mid-field distance already.

For reference, I use the KH310 in a 4m x 4m room. Listening distance ~2.6m. The KH310 is just nice.

 

[IamJF]

I’d recommend to move up to at least a KH150. 3m is considered mid-field distance already.

I think KH120ii + KH750 gives more value as 2x KH150. It's simply a budget point of view.
KH150 is only a little louder as KH120ii and a little more narrow sound radiation -> better for wider distances but the difference is - little. Price difference is more as a little. So I would invest it towards a KH750.

 

[isabido]

I wanted to ask the users of MA1 and KH750

When you use a KH750 with speakers that do not have DSP, I understand that the entire filtering curve is made by the KH750 itself.

But what happens if we put it with some KH80DSP or these new KH120 II?

Does each one take care of their filtering? or continue doing all the filtering with the same KH750.

Thank you!

 

[DJBonoBobo]

I wanted to ask the users of MA1 and KH750

When you use a KH750 with speakers that do not have DSP, I understand that the entire filtering curve is made by the KH750 itself.

But what happens if we put it with some KH80DSP or these new KH120 II?

Does each one take care of their filtering? or continue doing all the filtering with the same KH750.

Thank you!

When using DSP-speakers, each one takes care for themselves, AFAIK. Pretty sure i read that somewhere, but don't remember where.

 

[Matias]

I am ordering a pair of these to upgrade from my KH 80 DSP. Would have bought the KH 120 II in their place if it was available back then instead of the KH 120 A, but anyway.

I wonder why DSP active monitors such as these and KH 150 and KH 80 DSP don't have dynamic bass extension just like KEF KC62. Would be awesome if the speaker would increase bass extension in lower volumes, and reduce the increase until neutral when volume is higher to protect the drivers and reduce distortions, etc.

 

[IamJF]

In the Studio world we don't want the speaker to fool around with dynamic EQ - you must be sure the speaker behaves the same at every listening level. Imagine you cross over to a woofer and the speaker changes it's lf behaviour ...
You could just boost the bass with MA1 and it will limit at very high levels anyway Some home cinema preamps have dynamic EQ for silent listening, not sure if this is implemented in a useful way.

 

[staticV3]

In the Studio world we don't want the speaker to fool around with dynamic EQ - you must be sure the speaker behaves the same at every listening level. Imagine you cross over to a woofer and the speaker changes it's lf behaviour ...
You could just boost the bass with MA1 and it will limit at very high levels anyway Some home cinema preamps have dynamic EQ for silent listening, not sure if this is implemented in a useful way.

Definitely not a feature for studio environments or 2.1 setups.

But for 2.0 music enjoyment, dynamic LFX would be an awesome feature!

Basically an evolution of the limiter circuit, which however goes both ways.

Provided you listen in nearfield and keep to reasonable SPLs, the KH120II may be able to play flat down to 20Hz without audible distortion.

 

[isabido]

Definitely not a feature for studio environments or 2.1 setups.

But for 2.0 music enjoyment, dynamic LFX would be an awesome feature!

Basically an evolution of the limiter circuit, which however goes both ways.

Provided you listen in nearfield and keep to reasonable SPLs, the KH120II may be able to play flat down to 20Hz without audible distortion.

I understand that for a studio someone adjusts their mixing system for those typical 83db where our appreciation of the bass and treble is the flattest to our ears. But in my case I use a Genelec 8020+sub DIY with FIR filtering, for home listening and being able to apply an ISO226 curve depending on the volume is a real advantage and is appreciated for listening at low volumes.

I leave an image where you can see it

 

[mp70]

Hi,
I want to digital connect the KH120 II with the 750DSP.

Source (analog out from my Streamer) to -> 750 DSP SUB then -> 750 SUB AES3 Digital OUT then -> 120 II Digital SPDIF IN

for Digital connections
Sub 750 DSP has AES3 Digital Output
KH120II has SPDIF Digital Input

The manual 120II says: "go via an adapter (BNC–RCA) to the DIGITAL INPUT socket (RCA)" for digital signals

What does Adapter mean - a simple, mechanical, BNC to RCA Adapter? Or is there any kind of sophisticated (electrical?) adapter/converter meant?

Will my configuration work :

AES3 Digital out 750 Sub to the Digital in SPDIF 120II via BNC cable:

using a

mechanical adapter to connect the BNC cable to 120II



Or should I better use the Analog out of the 750 Sub because the source signal (from my DAC analog out) is already analog?

 

[staticV3]

What does Adapter mean - a simple, mechanical, BNC to RCA Adapter?

Yes.

 

[mp70]

Yes.

Thanks.

Do you think digital connect the 120 to Sub is the best connection with an analog source signal?

 

[staticV3]

Thanks.

Do you think digital connect the 120 to Sub is the best connection with an analog source signal?

I do.

Though I'd also consider replacing the streamer with one capable of digital audio output. Something like the WiiM Mini or WiiM Pro.

It just cuts down on the number of unnecessary D->A and A->D conversions.

For MA1 calibration with an all-digital signal chain, the Native Instruments KA6 MK2 can be used.

Here's a thread with details:

Need help with Neumann kh750 + 120II + MA1

So I bought 2x120II and 750 and doing the alignment is pain in the ass. First off all the actual alignment process using the app is different from what they show on youtube video(I never got to the page with checkmarks, and now I am not sure if everything is correct). Second of all, the 750 is...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[IamJF]

Definitely not a feature for studio environments or 2.1 setups.

But for 2.0 music enjoyment, dynamic LFX would be an awesome feature!

Basically an evolution of the limiter circuit, which however goes both ways.

Provided you listen in nearfield and keep to reasonable SPLs, the KH120II may be able to play flat down to 20Hz without audible distortion.

20Hz would be a stretch cause it has a filter around the resonance frequency of the reflex tuning. But for just listening to music dynamic EQ is for sure a good option, esp when the speaker manufacturer implements it reasonably.

 

[Matias]

I would definitely turn it on. And whoever does not want or need it, just turn off. A few lines of code and some testing, done, an easy feature to add.

 

[mp70]

I do.

Though I'd also consider replacing the streamer with one capable of digital audio output. Something like the WiiM Mini or WiiM Pro.

It just cuts down on the number of unnecessary D->A and A->D conversions.

For MA1 calibration with an all-digital signal chain, the Native Instruments KA6 MK2 can be used.

Here's a thread with details:

Need help with Neumann kh750 + 120II + MA1

So I bought 2x120II and 750 and doing the alignment is pain in the ass. First off all the actual alignment process using the app is different from what they show on youtube video(I never got to the page with checkmarks, and now I am not sure if everything is correct). Second of all, the 750 is...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Is that correct that the digitial input into Sub 750 and digital out to the Monitors has no Bass Managment applied? - I found this in the manual. Bass Managment is only working with Subs Analog out not for a AES3 digital chain to the Monitors.

That means - I have to use the MA-1 Software for activate the Crossover of 80Hz to the 120II ??

Thats a bit confusion and bothers me, because I dont have the MA-1 Mic/Software - seems I have to pay extra for digital chain with Bassmanagement :-(

 

[Hemi-Demon]

Is that correct that the digitial input into Sub 750 and digital out to the Monitors has no Bass Managment applied? - I found this in the manual. Bass Managment is only working with Subs Analog out not for a AES3 digital chain to the Monitors.

That means - I have to use the MA-1 Software for activate the Crossover of 80Hz to the 120II ??

Thats a bit confusion and bothers me, because I dont have the MA-1 Mic/Software - seems I have to pay extra for digital chain with Bassmanagement :-(

That's not true. The more recent software updates allow for a complete digital connection and bass management with the MA-1.

 

[mp70]

That's not true. The more recent software updates allow for a complete digital connection and bass management with the MA-1.

That means - you have to Install MA-1 to activate Bass Management even I didnt buy th Mic?