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Neumann KH 310A Review (Powered Monitor)

DSJR

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I was stung by this back in the mid 80's when our 'terrible twosome' brands Linn and Naim hiked UK prices up for two or three years on the trot to bring them into line with the retail prices in their export markets. the excuse was they didn't want rich germans coming to the UK and buying their products twenty odd percent or more cheaper than in their own markets. Apparently today, freight charges have drastically increased, as I discovered recently, having a courier transport a pair of 15kg (each) speakers from eastern to north west England. Price was around double the cost of 2006 when a heavier larger pair of speakers were shipped here for little more than half the cost. I was told pallet-loads of audio gear from the UK to the US now costs roughly double what it did two years ago. I suspect the Genelec increases cover this as they obviously keep prices for a model stable for it's life, but then a new model gets a massive hike as a result?
 

Pearljam5000

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Genelec conceals its price increases by very rapid model changes.
Why the market would sync for a price increase?
At least they improve the older models with the new ones, so some increase in price is justified.
But this is 10 years old technology that probably costs them much less to make now than when it was new and they increased the price for no reason
 

Hephaestus

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Genelec conceals its price increases by very rapid model changes.
Why the market would sync for a price increase?

8260 was available from 2010 until 2019. If you call that very rapid model change... I am not really sure where you have been living lately. In tech world that is a pretty long production run.

I have noticed that you have been dropping similar content around here with the assistance of Google Translate and I am not sure if that is fruitful in the long run - this is, of course just my opinion.
 

temps

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Just got my pair. I thought my LYD 7s were great... and they are! But the KH 310s are clearly in an entirely different class. Absolutely spectacular.

Anybody running these with a sub? I'm still using mine with the same 75hz 24db/oct crossover I had set up for the Dyns but that seems so unnecessary now. I could easily ditch the sub altogether but I figure it's better to have it there to try and smooth out the bass response of the room a bit.

I'm thinking of moving the crossover down significantly but maybe switching to 12 or 18dB/oct? 45hz and 12dB or 55hz and 18dB, something like that.
 

respice finem

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Every room is different, generally, the smaller the stereo triangle, the better, and the KH 310 profit from placement near the rear wall (and from RTFM before setting up). I couldn't believe how good it was (also measurably) without any hassle with DSP and such, just by setting them up according to the manual.
 

q3cpma

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Genelec doesn't increase the price?
Genelec renews his models quickly why?

8260 7390 euro 2013

8361a 9900 euro 2021
Why do you think these have a comparable BOM? The 8361A uses in-house woofers with neodymium magnets, a LOT more amp horsepower (700W vs 150W for LF), more powerful DSP modules (16 or more notch filters vs 4), and obviously more R&D shared with the Ones family (especially to match directivity between the waveguide and controlled vertical cancellation and vastly improve the coaxial's capabilities to play louder while crossing lower).
 
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Frgirard

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Why do you think these have a comparable BOM? The 8361A uses in-house woofers with neodymium magnets, a LOT more amp horsepower (700W vs 150W for LF), more powerful DSP modules (16 or more notch filters vs 4), and obviously more R&D shared with the Ones family (especially to match directivity between the waveguide and controlled vertical cancellation and vastly improve the coaxial's capabilities to play louder while crossing lower).
In my world the most important is what is audible.
The marketing and the Overefficiency are most powerful.
The watt, the dsp cost nothing.
 

q3cpma

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In my world the most important is what is audible.
What I meant is that Genelec isn't just increasing prices because they want to.
The watt, the dsp cost nothing.
Doubt the watts cost really "nothing" and I'm pretty sure neo magnets have a significant impact.
 

thewas

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I'm thinking of moving the crossover down significantly but maybe switching to 12 or 18dB/oct? 45hz and 12dB or 55hz and 18dB, something like that.
First of all congrats on the fantastic KH310. :cool:
Do you use FIR filters? If not a such low crossover frequency will increase the group delay in that region quite highly so it could be above the known audibility limits and if you use FIR to correct it, it will have quite some latency.
 

temps

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First of all congrats on the fantastic KH310. :cool:
Do you use FIR filters? If not a such low crossover frequency will increase the group delay in that region quite highly so it could be above the known audibility limits and if you use FIR to correct it, it will have quite some latency.
I do! I haven't gotten around to measuring the latency of my FIR filters to match them up with IIR correction on the bass, so I just FIR everything... I went with 70dB and 24db/oct FIR filters for my first attempt but honestly, I don't think they need that much. Right now I'm just using Pro-Q 3 to pull down the peak at 130hz a bit and I prefer it over the FIR filters... seriously, this FR is outrageous:

1631831134285.png


The sub does help fill in the nulls a tiny bit but unfortunately whatever FR issues I have appear to be nulls at my listening position.. presumably the broad suckout around 600hz or so would need a ceiling cloud to fix.

Absolutely outstanding... completely blown away. This is the best deal I've gotten on anything in my life.

edit:
comparison of 310 & LYD 7
1631832264948.png
1631832277594.png
 
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echopraxia

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I love seeing all the Neumann KH310 love here!

Absolutely outstanding... completely blown away. This is the best deal I've gotten on anything in my life.
I have to agree. When I first ordered my KH310’s a while ago, at first it felt a little nervous / risky / remorseful since at the time it was my most expensive speaker purchase ever. But as soon as they arrived, all doubt of any kind washed away; then and ever since, I’ve believe they are a bargain for what you get.

I guess the 8350A is in the same class but is only 2-way.
And the next level are the Ones but they cost double than the KH310
So yeah, it's a hard choice
Yeah, I think the KH310 occupies a wonderful “sweet spot” between the cheaper two-ways from both Neumann and Genelec, and much more expensive three-ways (like the much more expensive Genelec 8351B which are approximately twice as expensive in the US).

One of the few other contending three-way speakers in a similar price category would be Revel F206, but having owned those and heard those back-to-back, I believe the Neumann KH310’s are much better.
 
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Pearljam5000

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I love seeing all the Neumann KH310 love here!


I have to agree. When I first ordered my KH310’s a while ago, at first it felt a little nervous / risky / remorseful since at the time it was my most expansive speaker purchase ever. But as soon as they arrived, all doubt of any kind washed away; then and ever since, I’ve believe they are a bargain for what you get.


Yeah, I think the KH310 occupies a wonderful “sweet spot” between the cheaper two-ways from both Neumann and Genelec, and much more expensive three-ways (like the much more expensive Genelec 8351B which are approximately twice as expensive in the US).

One of the few other contending three-way speakers in a similar price category would be Revel F206, but having owned those and heard those back-to-back, I believe the Neumann KH310’s are much better.
It makes me sad for not getting them @ the old price :confused:
 

echopraxia

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I don't buy it, why hasn't Genelec and other companies increased the prices?
I can’t speak to the prices in other countries, but Genelec speakers in the US are fiercely price-controlled and sell at a huge markup, when compared to prices in e.g. Finland. So I imagine they have a considerable buffer margin that can absorb some inflation costs until they become too great.

Neumann maybe not so much, since at least in the USA I find that Neumann’s pricing gets you more value per dollar than Genelec, at least from the KH80/120/310 (as for KH420 I don’t know, since the Genelec 8361A costs the same in USD and is in some ways better).
 

echopraxia

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It makes me sad for not getting them @ the old price :confused:
Well, at least they’re still very competitive for the price IMO, even after the price increase. Even more so if you can negotiate a discount from a dealer (which I did back when I got mine, although that was pre-covid supply chain issues, so probably not possible any more). The only other monitor I can think of that matches and exceeds the KH310 would be Genelec 8351B’s which cost $8000/pair MSRP, rather than $4600/pair MSRP.
 

Vintage57

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as for KH420 I don’t know, since the Genelec 8361A costs the same in USD and is in some ways better).

Can you elaborate?
 

echopraxia

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as for KH420 I don’t know, since the Genelec 8361A costs the same in USD and is in some ways better).

Can you elaborate?
Well we don’t know for sure since we do not have Klippell measurements for either the Genelec 8361A or the Neumann KH420. Both have polar response plots published by the manufacturer and both look fantastic. Both have SPL measurements available and both are also fantastic (though the KH420 has more midbass, midrange, and treble power, while the Genelec 8361 measures with a bit more bass power).

It seems like a close tie from what data we have now, but I would give the first prize between Neumann KH420 vs Genelec 8361A to the latter, if only because of the advantages you get from a fully coaxial design, and the additional built-in DSP, auto-sleep, and other advanced digital features.
 
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