Need Help w Subs in a Large room

[phion]

Hi,
I am considering adding a subwoofer to my system located in a somewhat large room (though with a smaller subset that's the listening area). Please see the attached diagram.
The room has pretty high ceilings 4.5m. My primary concern is to get good bass response in the main listening area rather than "filling the whole room". I have two possible locations where I can place subwoofers indicated in the diagram (sadly there isn't room for a lot of maneuver here). I strongly prefer to at least start with one subwoofer, even though I have understood from reading the forum that having multiple subs usually yields better results. I run roon and have the ability to add basic EQ filters using REW etc. I was thinking of getting an Arendal 1723 2V. I don't have a ton of other options as I live in the UK and many of the brands praised on this forum aren't easy to get here. Really appreciate any suggestions and comments on this.

EDIT: primary use case is music (though I listen to bass heavy stuff like Electronic, so care about low end a bit). I usually listen at moderate volumes ~65-75dB SPL at the listening position.

 

[sigbergaudio]

Depending on how you cross over it may not be ideal to have both to the left like that - but it can work well too. You don't have any other options on the front wall?

 

[Purité Audio]

If you haven’t I would enter the room’s dimensions and your loudspeakers/ your listening position into REW‘s room simulation feature, you can virtually drag the subs/mains/you around and see the FR change.
Keith

 

[phion]

Depending on how you cross over it may not be ideal to have both to the left like that - but it can work well too. You don't have any other options on the front wall?

to clarify, I am looking at putting one sub in either of these two locations, not both for the time being. The wall to the right side is actually an all glass window and I'd rather not put anything next to it to block the view.

 

[ZolaIII]

to clarify, I am looking at putting one sub in either of these two locations, not both for the time being. The wall to the right side is actually an all glass window and I'd rather not put anything next to it to block the view.

Without putting thick curtains over the windows simply forget about it. Use REW room simulator as described and get a measuring microphone if you already don't have one. What are the main speakers and do you have multichannel DAC, interface or DSP?
Edit: and you will most definitely need a equal loudness compensation or to count it in like preference curve when doing DSP-ing for moderate and lower listening levels.

 

[sigbergaudio]

to clarify, I am looking at putting one sub in either of these two locations, not both for the time being. The wall to the right side is actually an all glass window and I'd rather not put anything next to it to block the view.

Then you should simply test both, and opt for the one that works best.

 

[phion]

Without putting thick curtains over the windows simply forget about it.

do you mean it's better to not add any sub at all?

 

[pogo]

Which main speakers are you using?
Nowadays you don't necessarily need a subwoofer.

 

[phion]

Which main speakers are you using?
Nowadays you don't necessarily need a subwoofer.

I have the JBL L100 reissues. They have 40Hz LF cutoff I think. Comparing listening experience to my other room setup where I do have a sub, I think subs (assuming I can get them to work in the room) would definitely enhance the experience.

 

[pogo]

I have the JBL L100 reissues. They have 40Hz LF cutoff I think.

You can also run the JBLs below the LF cutoff, see also an example here: Link
In your case, I would set the extension under Dirac Live. DLART will soon be available in affordable devices. You should then no longer have any problems in the low frequency range.

 

[phion]

You can also run the JBLs below the LF cutoff, see also an example here: Link
In your case, I would set the extension under Dirac Live. DLART will soon be available in affordable devices. You should then no longer have any problems in the low frequency range.

wow, was completely blind to this stuff. Thanks for the pointer.

 

[ZolaIII]

do you mean it's better to not add any sub at all?

Windows will ring with or without sub's so I think you can menage that much to put curtains that you can slide when want view. L100 Classic have very high dynamic range in mid and uper bass, woffer all do 12" ain't a sub driver (not reinforced paper) and I wouldn't force them to go move down then they are. Ideal crossover point is 70 Hz (80 Hz will work solid). Port tuning is at 35 Hz and there is that.
I would strongly advise you to buy a measurement microphone and see what you are getting and what is the room doing as you might not need the sub after all (if room has some refractions gain in low and sub bass). If you do need and want a sub try to find SVS SB-3000 and use it RCA I/O high pass 80 Hz and accordingly adjust low pass, that would get you to - 3 dB at 30 Hz without room and would have enough omps to follow mains (119 dB SPL max for SVS). Found it at Peter Tayson but didn't like pricing (1200£) but didn't look much and I am sure you can do better to find it cheaper. I don't think you need more then one if don't get holes in response (again mic and measure), certainly not for higher SPL. The sub will help and when you need to push the actual driver response i'and low bass for equal loudness, rest is up to you.

JBL L100 Classic Bookshelf Loudspeaker Review - Modern Take on a Classic

The JBL L100 Classics have the look of the L100 Centurys updated with the latest in loudspeaker design for improved performance. Our review determines if they surpass the originals to create a new legacy.

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SVS 3000 Series Powered Subwoofers Review

We reviewed the SVS 3000 series subwoofers which, in many ways, may be their best subwoofer series to date. Read our in-depth review to find out why we like the SVS 3000 series subwoofers so much.

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Have fun and plesent evening.

 

[dannut]

I don't have a ton of other options as I live in the UK and many of the brands praised on this forum aren't easy to get here.

go pick up locally a BKELEC Peerless XLS based sub. Add multiples, if more output and smoother modal response is needed.

 

[phion]

go pick up locally a BKELEC Peerless XLS based sub. Add multiples, if more output and smoother modal response is needed.

Are they good? Can't find any measurements of them and iiuc their low end is not as good as Arendal?

 

[dannut]

=SVS SB2000 = Linkwitz Thor (https://www.linkwitzlab.com/thor-intro.htm). Peerless XLS is a known quality driver. Pair it with a decent box and amp and you have proper sub within its output limits. Low Le variation, good, clean response at the high frequencies, can be crossed anywhere up to 200-300Hz.

primary use case is music (though I listen to bass heavy stuff like Electronic, so care about low end a bit). I usually listen at moderate volumes ~65-75dB SPL at the listening position

Arendal would be better for reference level movie playback at your room size, but even electronic music doesn't have much <35Hz (there are fantastic exception of course). Those XLS-s are good building blocks and if output gets low, just add multiples until satisfied. They are relatively cheap.

 

[dannut]

I have two possible locations where I can place subwoofers indicated in the diagram (sadly there isn't room for a lot of maneuver here)

Don't say that, until you seen @sigbergaudio Inkognitos. Uses the same/similar good quality driver as previously mentioned XLS (Scan-Speak Discovery?). Also they have the necessary DSP functionality to high-pass your mains and get the modal region under control.

You will have massive spatial variance with one sub only. Highly recommend to get at least 2 and position them somehow widely separated at the front wall. Add third besides the couch if needed. But 2 at the front wall should get you similar response at the couch.

 

[sigbergaudio]

Don't say that, until you seen @sigbergaudio Inkognitos. Uses the same/similar good quality driver as previously mentioned XLS (Scan-Speak Discovery?). Also they have the necessary DSP functionality to high-pass your mains and get the modal region under control.

You will have massive spatial variance with one sub only. Highly recommend to get at least 2 and position them somehow widely separated at the front wall. Add third besides the couch if needed. But 2 at the front wall should get you similar response at the couch.

The driver is not exactly the same as the XLS; Some differences in parameters, and the driver cone is a different material (aluminium), but it's indeed an evolution of the XLS/XXLS from Peerless.