Subwoofer Recommendations for Strange, Large, Reflective Room

[stevef22]

Hello! I'm seeking advice on subwoofer selection and setup for my 2-ch listening space. My room has high ceilings, with few soft surfaces (allot of echo)

Music Preferences & Goals:

• Primary genres: Electronic, Dance, Jazz
• Looking for powerful, clean bass (self-proclaimed bass head)
• Want to avoid muddy/boomy sound
• I like the “feel it in your soul” bass
  

My current understanding: I'm familiar with the subwoofer crawl and basic placement concepts. I'm considering options from premium manufacturers (PSA, HSU, Rythmik, RSL) and leaning toward a ported design. Also to save money Im considering MartySubs Flatpack + Crown amp setup (they offer sealed, horn, and ported designs)

Key Questions:

1. Would dual subwoofers be beneficial in this space?
2. Optimal placement strategy for this room type?
3. Thoughts on horn-loaded vs traditional ported designs for this room?
   
   The budget is $3,200 USD max (for 1 or 2 subwoofers).

Please watch this 2 min room walkthrough.

Room details: Approx 26 Long X 13 Wide, Ceilings range from 9ft to 19ft.

 

[bachatero]

Before I can provide any advice, what is your budget? Because subwoofers range from the humble $500 studio thing to $10K monsters.

 

[stevef22]

Before I can provide any advice, what is your budget? Because subwoofers range from the humble $500 studio thing to $10K monsters.

Thanks good point. The budget is $3,200 USD max (for 1 or 2 subwoofers). Thank you

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Multiple subs are generally preferable, if placed properly.

 

[sigbergaudio]

Side note, but have you considered moving the speakers MUCH closer to the listening position? You'll get zero soundstage and stereo perspective way over at the back wall where they're placed now, compared to what is possible.

 

[DVDdoug]

I can't make a recommendation.

My room has high ceilings, with few soft surfaces (allot of echo)

Soft surfaces have more effect on high & mid frequencies. They don't affect the bass much.

Want to avoid muddy/boomy sound

"Precision" EQ or "room correction" can help a lot with that. It doesn't help as much with the dips in response where the direct & reflected soundwaves are canceling but the boomy-bumps are usually more annoying than the dips anyway.

I like the “feel it in your soul” bass

I don't know about that, but if the bass is strong enough you can feel it in your body!

they offer sealed, horn, and ported designs)

I saved this link which shows the general trade-off between sealed and ported enclosures. A ported box usually has a lower cutoff frequency but at some point the curves cross and the sealed box puts-out more bass.

Pro subs used live and in dance clubs are usually large-efficient ported designs that go down to around 40Hz. That's a compromise that allows them to fill a large venue with bass you can feel in your body. Just for reference, the lowest note on a standard electric bass guitar is about 40Hz.

Home and studio subs are often sealed. With EQ/DSP the bass can be extended lower, even in a smaller box, and although you usually don't get as much energy/SPL, it can be enough for a smaller space.

I have a pair of DIY 15-in ported subs in "large" boxes. They go down to somewhere in the 30Hz range. More like a PA sub. They are overkill but I wanted to build something "crazy" to go at the bottom of my already crazy-huge "speaker stack" I've done a couple of DJ gigs and I wanted them usable for that, but since building them I haven't done any DJ gigs and they may never be used to their full potential. But I can rattle the walls if I want to!!!

Would dual subwoofers be beneficial in this space?

Usually multiple subs in different locations can help to smooth-out the bass. But somebody pointed-out that "bass problems" often go-up to 300 or 500Hz, above where the subs are operating.

I'm not familiar with MartySubs but horns don't work at low frequencies (long wavelengths) unless they are HUGE:

Those are 15-inch woofers and the horns in those antique theater speakers aren't big enough for "subwoofer frequencies". When those speakers were made movies didn't have deep-bass.

Here is another large folded horn:

 

[bachatero]

Thanks good point. The budget is $3,200 USD max (for 1 or 2 subwoofers). Thank you

There is a simple solution, and it's two Neumann KH750s. They are sealed, integrated with DSP, go super duper low (around 22Hz), look great, and aren't subject to the Chynah import tariffs due to being made in the Czech Republic. However, two would cost $3500 ($1750 each) but is easily reduced to $3200 if you're willing to get clever with imports or credit card signup bonuses (a better option than you might think!)

Hope this helps!

 

[Keith_W]

1. Would dual subwoofers be beneficial in this space?
2. Optimal placement strategy for this room type?
3. Thoughts on horn-loaded vs traditional ported designs for this room?

1. As Welti 2006 shows, the minimum number of subs you need two. The key limitations of Welti's study was that the room was rectangular, that optimisation for a seating area (rather than seating position) was preferable, and that complete freedom for subwoofer placement was possible. For this reason, Welti's study does not apply for many real-life listening rooms, and I would wager that more than two subs are required for most listening rooms!

2. Optimal placement strategy: nobody knows. Your space is complex and requires someone to make a model and run it through a sim. It would be easier to buy the subs and do a crawl. I would place the sub at the MLP and do the crawl with the mic for the first sub. Then place the sub in the optimal position and put the mic at the MLP. Then you have to move around the second sub until all the dips disappear, or as minimal as you can get it. EQ out the remaining peaks. Or you could try Geddes Multi-Subwoofer method.

3. Forget horn loaded subs unless you are made of money and are willing to have giant subwoofers the size of refrigerators in your room. Go with a ported or sealed sub. I generally prefer sealed subs because they are easier to DSP.

I should add that DSP is essential for all subwoofer setups. Make sure you have room in your budget for DSP, or you can make a plan to add DSP later.

 

[stevef22]

Thanks everyone for the input! Im on a mission to add some treatment to the room and find non-horn loaded subs.

 

[Flaesh]

You'll get zero soundstage and stereo perspective

I also assume approximately zero clarity in bed. With such a listening position and speakers placement in such a room.
Is there enough space for subs under the bed?)

 

[Digital_Thor]

You could think a bit out of the box too.
Get a bit more directive and smaller speakers, and place them on some shelf or other arrangement, on the walls on each side, so they point towards the bed, where you apparently sit the most. Then you add a couple of subwoofers that are slim or low, so they can be hidden under the bed or places near the wall. Actually you could place the subwoofers higher up, if you build a shelf for it - all considering the wall structure being able to carry these loads, and subwoofers do not need to be placed anywhere special, as long as you cross below or around 100Hz, you should bed able to have quite a lot of creative freedom.
Then definitely add some sound absorption on the walls. Even high up, so they maybe match the window size and kinda fit into the decor. I helped my sister do this in her living room, in an apartment build with reenforced concrete, where everything ring like a bell. Just adding 6 pieces of 4cm thick 80x80cm plates high up in her 3,8m tall living room, really helped to remove that ringing.
Just throwing out ideas here... maybe some of them stick, and maybe you add preferences and thoughts too, which in the end will give you a nice solution

 

[stevef22]

You could think a bit out of the box too.
Get a bit more directive and smaller speakers, and place them on some shelf or other arrangement, on the walls on each side, so they point towards the bed, where you apparently sit the most. Then you add a couple of subwoofers that are slim or low, so they can be hidden under the bed or places near the wall. Actually you could place the subwoofers higher up, if you build a shelf for it - all considering the wall structure being able to carry these loads, and subwoofers do not need to be placed anywhere special, as long as you cross below or around 100Hz, you should bed able to have quite a lot of creative freedom.
Then definitely add some sound absorption on the walls. Even high up, so they maybe match the window size and kinda fit into the decor. I helped my sister do this in her living room, in an apartment build with reenforced concrete, where everything ring like a bell. Just adding 6 pieces of 4cm thick 80x80cm plates high up in her 3,8m tall living room, really helped to remove that ringing.
Just throwing out ideas here... maybe some of them stick, and maybe you add preferences and thoughts too, which in the end will give you a nice solution

Many thanks, gives me more ideas to think about.

 

[stevef22]

1. As Welti 2006 shows, the minimum number of subs you need two. The key limitations of Welti's study was that the room was rectangular, that optimisation for a seating area (rather than seating position) was preferable, and that complete freedom for subwoofer placement was possible. For this reason, Welti's study does not apply for many real-life listening rooms, and I would wager that more than two subs are required for most listening rooms!

2. Optimal placement strategy: nobody knows. Your space is complex and requires someone to make a model and run it through a sim. It would be easier to buy the subs and do a crawl. I would place the sub at the MLP and do the crawl with the mic for the first sub. Then place the sub in the optimal position and put the mic at the MLP. Then you have to move around the second sub until all the dips disappear, or as minimal as you can get it. EQ out the remaining peaks. Or you could try Geddes Multi-Subwoofer method.

3. Forget horn loaded subs unless you are made of money and are willing to have giant subwoofers the size of refrigerators in your room. Go with a ported or sealed sub. I generally prefer sealed subs because they are easier to DSP.

I should add that DSP is essential for all subwoofer setups. Make sure you have room in your budget for DSP, or you can make a plan to add DSP later.

Thanks for your reply. When I was referring to a horn sub this is the one I had in mind. Says optimized for game, movie and music. Tuned to 23Hz. (but how can you optimize for all three? Lol)
Horn Sub https://shop.gsgad.com/collections/g-sub-horn-subwoofers


VS a normal ported sub here. Tuned to 18Hz. https://shop.gsgad.com/collections/...ries/products/roundover-minimarty-single-unit


I had no idea horn subs get so big! The only other horn loaded sub that comes to mind is a B52 Folded Horn Sub $599
https://www.guitarcenter.com/B-52/LX-18-V2-18-1000W-Folded-Horn-Subwoofer-1274115060678.gc



Actually if you can bring some light to how these differ, that would be much appreciated. The B52 is only $599.


Thank you

 

[Keith_W]

Thanks for your reply. When I was referring to a horn sub this is the one I had in mind. Says optimized for game, movie and music. Tuned to 23Hz. (but how can you optimize for all three? Lol)
Horn Sub https://shop.gsgad.com/collections/g-sub-horn-subwoofers

Without being able to look inside that sub, my guess is that it is a transmission line and not a horn.

 

[Megaken]

I have a garbage room with a glass wall and hard floor and a low end rel sub tuned with audyssey is doing admirably well