Does dual sub matter if both subs have equal dips/peaks in REW room sim?

[Geertidow]

Hi fellow forum members,

Soon I have the options to go dual sub. However, placement is fixed in both corners.

Room sim (REW) does not show big differences between the dips/peaks between one and two subs (left and right front corner).

Since the MLP is in a super position (approximately in the middle of a big room (7 m x 10 m)), would upgrading to 2 subs matter a lot?

They'll be supporting two KEF R3 Metas.

Thanks for your input!

 

[staticV3]

The advantage of multiple subs is that you can place them strategically to combat room modes.

If you can't do that because the placement cannot be changed, and one sub is loud enough for your needs, then a second one may not have much merit.

 

[DVDdoug]

Then it probably won't help that much except twice the woofer power allows you better EQ the dips (Still, it's hard to overcome cancelation by throwing more power at it.)

And... more bass power is almost always welcome, and it will have a symmetrical appearance!

 

[Mort]

Since the MLP is in a super position (approximately in the middle of a big room (7 m x 10 m)), would upgrading to 2 subs matter a lot?

Maybe not, but that's a big room to fill. You might want a significant subwoofer if getting one.

 

[Keith_W]

When using REW's room simulator, don't forget to also play with delays, gains, and XO points.

You said in your first post, 7m x 10m with the subs in the 2 front corners, and speakers in the middle of the room. This is the best result with 2 subs.

And that's the best I could do with one sub. This doesn't tell the full story though - if you were to grab the listener and move him around a bit, there is significantly more variability with only one sub.

 

[Sokel]

OP does not defines the orientation, are the speakers placed at the long or at the short side?

My room is similar, a little larger, and the best results is at the long side (no subs for me but the REW sim shows the same if I ever decide to.

 

[alex-z]

REW can simulate multiple listening positions at once. I recommend looking for at least 15cm front/back and 30cm to each side. Dual subs are an upgrade in any real scenario because you don't listen to music with your head in a vice.

 

[sigbergaudio]

You have a 70m^2 room and only two possible locations for the subs?

You can probably get a better result if you are able to place the subs asymmetrically, so moving one of the subs out of the corner and in on the inside of one of the speakers.

 

[Geertidow]

I'll post some room sim pictures shortly

 

[Geertidow]

So this is the room, I realized I explained poorly.
The subs are in the corners of the 'listening section' if you will.

Any (second) thoughts?

The other parts of the room are used for other purposes.

The room has some angles (see attachments), but it's hard to position the subs elsewhere.

The sub(s) I envisioned were the SVS-2000 pro (sealed)

 

[sigbergaudio]

First of all I would get the speakers as wide as possible, either by moving the listening position closer to the speakers and/or switching places between speakers and subs (so having the subs on the inside of the speakers).

Do you have a stereo rack of some kind in the middle, or is the entire space between the speakers free?

 

[Geertidow]

First of all I would get the speakers as wide as possible, either by moving the listening position closer to the speakers and/or switching places between speakers and subs (so having the subs on the inside of the speakers).

Do you have a stereo rack of some kind in the middle, or is the entire space between the speakers free?

However, as wide as possible will result in speakers near the side walls. That is usually not recommended right?

 

[sigbergaudio]

However, as wide as possible will result in speakers near the side walls. That is usually not recommended right?

If you toe them in a bit + possibly have some treatments on the wall right next to the speaker, you should usually be fine with as close as 40-50cm to the wall. Everything is a compromise, personally I would choose the added width over distance to wall.

 

[boxerfan88]

7m x 4m. Reasonably even from 23Hz on up... with some peaks that can be knocked back down using EQ..

 

[Geertidow]

View attachment 454308

7m x 4m. Reasonably even from 23Hz on up... with some peaks that can be knocked back down using EQ..

Would you advice placing the sub in the middle?

 

[boxerfan88]

Would you advice placing the sub in the middle?

From my own personal experience, yes I do advise placing in the middle. My subwoofer is now in the middle and the soundstage & male vocal phantom center is much better, bass tonal variation is lesser (less super peaks or super dips).

Previously my subwoofer was at the far right side of the front wall, where on some tracks the bass sounded odd/wierd, and some male vocals sounded a bit diffused when supposed to be centered.

 

[FrantzM]

Hi.

Yes, Put them in the corner if you absolutely have to. More flexible placement would yield better results but if you have to...
One thing must be made clear: EQ and DSP are mandatory to have great bass.
Yes, the SVS Subwoofers built-in EQ/DSP and the SVS APP may give you some results. An infinitely better solution, is to add something like a miniDSP 2x4 HD to allow you delay, EQ, etc. This Will take you more time and some aggravation, but with such, you can achieve, flat plus or minus 2 dB, from 15 to 200 Hz at the MLP under serious SLP .

Peace.

 

[digitalfrost]

Regardless of room modes, I think mono sub vs stereo sub is a difference you can clearly hear. What is better might be preference, but I'd always prefer two subs for the ability to not have to sum the bass signals alone.

 

[Geertidow]

I already have a minidsp flex with DIRAC.
However for me, it's either single middle sub or dual sub in the corners.

 

[Geertidow]

So today I installed the KEF R3 metas and the SVS 2000 pro. I placed the sub in the middle and used DIRAC (@abdo12's method) to set the delay on the speakers (5.23 ms, which seems a lot).
I checked at the XO and indeed the 5.23 ms delay on the mains gave the highest output at crossover frequency.

Later I checked which xo sounded best (80 Hz). Now I need to figure out if I'll stick with one sub or go bigger (2 subs).

Coming weekend I'll thoroughly test various xo's. But I'm still wondering about that 5.23 ms delay on the mains.

any thoughts?