NAD T778 Audio/Video Receiver (AVR) Review

[Lonestar1027]

In regular use, the fan is incredibly quiet and I couldn't even tell it was on until I put my hand back there. Although it has a mesh grill, I believe that is just meant to keep fingers and wires out. The fan is used for exhaust and you can feel the hotter air coming from the grill.

The unit Amir tested was mine and it's definitely been interesting seeing all of the measurements and subsequent comments. Although the results are not quite what I hoped for, I have no intention of returning the unit. The screen is slick, DIRAC sounds great, and there is nothing else out there right now with all of these features without jumping up to the HTP-1 and a set of amps.

 

[Billy Budapest]

Hi,

Thank you! This really is the perfect test track for the issue. The issue being today's unnecessary over-mastering of pop music.

Here are screenshots from my audio editor of the end section of the track which is mastered at a peak level of -0.03dB. Yep, three-hundredths of a dB below zero. Nothing like leaving a little headroom for codecs/AVR processing right?

View attachment 80581

View attachment 80582

I have seen examples of more dynamic tracks that hit even 0dB on brief peaks (which would mostly be inaudible) but here we can see that the end section of the song has also been "pushed" into the mastering limiter heavily to make it "loud" with average level (loudness) in the -7 range:

This combination is what creates the audible distortion whenever processing of some sort (including the conversion to .mp3 and .aac or processing in AVRs.) follows this sustained continuous "clipping" at -.03dB.

Mastering engineers are supposed to keep at least a few tenths of a dB of headroom to prevent this kind of thing from happening. The boneheaded idiot that mastered this should have reduced the peak output level of his mastering limiter, at the very least for this end section of the song, but alas he did not.

This is what happens now a days where virtually anybody can be a recording & mastering "engineer".

I tried playing this on my Denon x3400h in Stereo mode with speakers set to "small" via Roon/Tidal and verified the distortion you are reporting is indeed present.

However, using the DSP in Roon, I was able to mitigate it completely by turning on Roon's "Headroom Management" feature. I will be leaving this on from now on!

View attachment 80585

Jeez, that waveform looks brutal. Everything at the end squashed almost right up to 0dB with very little in the way of dynamics. It must sound like poo.

 

[Billy Budapest]

Hi,

Thank you! This really is the perfect test track for the issue. The issue being today's unnecessary over-mastering of pop music.

Here are screenshots from my audio editor of the end section of the track which is mastered at a peak level of -0.03dB. Yep, three-hundredths of a dB below zero. Nothing like leaving a little headroom for codecs/AVR processing right?

View attachment 80581

View attachment 80582

I have seen examples of more dynamic tracks that hit even 0dB on brief peaks (which would mostly be inaudible) but here we can see that the end section of the song has also been "pushed" into the mastering limiter heavily to make it "loud" with average level (loudness) in the -7 range:

This combination is what creates the audible distortion whenever processing of some sort (including the conversion to .mp3 and .aac or processing in AVRs.) follows this sustained continuous "clipping" at -.03dB.

Mastering engineers are supposed to keep at least a few tenths of a dB of headroom to prevent this kind of thing from happening. The boneheaded idiot that mastered this should have reduced the peak output level of his mastering limiter, at the very least for this end section of the song, but alas he did not.

This is what happens now a days where virtually anybody can be a recording & mastering "engineer".

I tried playing this on my Denon x3400h in Stereo mode with speakers set to "small" via Roon/Tidal and verified the distortion you are reporting is indeed present.

However, using the DSP in Roon, I was able to mitigate it completely by turning on Roon's "Headroom Management" feature. I will be leaving this on from now on!

View attachment 80585

You’ll lose a tiny bit of resolution with headroom management, though, as it digitally reduces the gain.

I see that has already been discussed above. If you are giving 3dB extra of headroom, that 3dB drop in gain will come at the expense of bit depth. With Roon’s upsampling done before the DSP, it shouldn’t be too much of problem, but if you are also using a digital volume control, it could be depending on how much attenuation you are dialing in.

 

[Billy Budapest]

Its a couple things. I dont believe the difference in SINAD from the best measuring AVR to the T778 is audible. Even if it were, it would be incredibly difficult to hear and the better room correction of the T778 would have a much bigger impact than 10 points higher on the SINAD scale from where it already is.

No one is saying Dirac makes SINAD better. What is being said is that in the case of the T778, the impact Dirac has results in a listening experience that is excellent and much better than this comment section would have you believe.

Im not sure why this seems so ridiculous. You guys actually think the difference in the SINAD score has a bigger impact on what you hear than proper room correction?

Of course I would like to see the T778 measure better but that product doesn't exist right now and I'm not going to settle for another AVR that does not give me as much of what I want just because its SINAD rating on ASR.com is higher.

The T778 sounds great IN SPITE OF what is deemed here to be mediocre measurements. Dirac is obviously a big reason for that. I don't understand what is so unbelievable about that.

I get it. Trust me on that. I just expected a lot better performance. But the product is based on some old UcD amps so the baseline performance is never going to be state of the art. Maybe some firmware fixes can be implemented. And like I said before, if it sounds great to you as is, no problem. I just hope NAD cleans up their act and produces a technically better product next time for folks willing to drop $3k. That’s a ton of money for some people—and the way I know audiophiles, they often spend really above their means. I know someone who told me he took out a home line of credit to buy audio gear. Scary.

 

[North_Sky]

If I was in the market for a new toy (pandemic time is safety mode time) I would love to test drive this new slick NAD AV receiver, definitely ... mine, all mine and nobody else.

 

[T3RIAD]

Am I the only one who thinks this isn't that bad? I mean come on guys, 80 dB SINAD is not going to be audible. The ADC frequency response is problematic, but I imagine very few people buy a surround receiver to use the stereo analog inputs.

Based on the measurements, withHDMI / streaming this product should sound good, right?

 

[Matyam]

Dirac software doesn't ask you how old you are so it can't do what you say!

No It can't but in the real world away from a lab the nad amplification is good enough when you take into account dirac can correct for imperfect rooms imperfect speakers ,ears that are not 21 anymore,we don't live in a perfect environment, it may not measure brilliantly and fair play you can hold manufacturers to account spot on.
Negative doomsayers are great for stirring pot but the pros on this machine far outway the negs ,I wish I had a easy dirac fix for my 2200.

 

[xian]

so the best choice is Denon 3600（or 8500） + DDRC88A？

 

[Matyam]

No it listen to all 3 and then make up your mind,same as always.

 

[Brian6751]

It is also a different shade of black if it helps rationalize.

Not to worry. People won't hear the measurement differences anyway. If there are any blanks, Dirac will fill it up. Or so we have been told.

Dirac is all you need and for $1k less. Everything else is in the noise so to speak.

Irony is truly dead.

So your "shade of black" comment was meant to be insulting. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[GigaChunk]

Its worth it for the digital vu meters alone

Very much disagree with you there. Screen refresh rate is too low and they end up looking tacky due to the lag.

 

[Brian6751]

Very much disagree with you there. Screen refresh rate is too low and they end up looking tacky due to the lag.

Im not a fan of the meters for the same reasons. Not even close to realistic

 

[Dj7675]

so the best choice is Denon 3600（or 8500） + DDRC88A？

I wouldn’t assume so. I don’t think the DDRC88a has been tested yet, but I have heard it said that it does add some hiss etc.

 

[GigaChunk]

In regular use, the fan is incredibly quiet and I couldn't even tell it was on until I put my hand back there. Although it has a mesh grill, I believe that is just meant to keep fingers and wires out. The fan is used for exhaust and you can feel the hotter air coming from the grill.

The unit Amir tested was mine and it's definitely been interesting seeing all of the measurements and subsequent comments. Although the results are not quite what I hoped for, I have no intention of returning the unit. The screen is slick, DIRAC sounds great, and there is nothing else out there right now with all of these features without jumping up to the HTP-1 and a set of amps.

I can definitely hear the fan on mine, and it's one of my main gripes. It is constantly on, and at its slowest setting at 1000rpm it emits an annoying whine/drone that pulses. When it does spin up faster than 1000rpm, it makes a lot more noise but only for a few seconds before dropping down again. Seems like a poor quality fan coupled with a fan profile that's too aggressive.

 

[Brian6751]

so the best choice is Denon 3600（or 8500） + DDRC88A？

I wouldn’t assume so. I don’t think the DDRC88a has been tested yet, but I have heard it said that it does add some hiss etc.

How would this be hooked up? We have had these combinations with home theater setups discussed before. They always end up as a cluster f&%k with limitations of their own such added delay. This is what led me to buy the T778 instead of a Denon and a MiniDSP SHD, which I did try btw.

 

[Brian6751]

I can definitely hear the fan on mine, and it's one of my main gripes. It is constantly on, and at its slowest setting at 1000rpm it emits an annoying whine/drone that pulses. When it does spin up faster than 1000rpm, it makes a lot more noise but only for a few seconds before dropping down again. Seems like a poor quality fan coupled with a fan profile that's too aggressive.

I do not hear the fan on mine

 

[Dj7675]

How would this be hooked up? We have had these combinations with home theater setups discussed before. They always end up as a cluster f&%k with limitations of their own such added delay. This is what led me to buy the T778 instead of a Denon and a MiniDSP SHD

I would 100% agree. I wouldn’t ever go the DDRC88a route myself. I have read the main thread at AVS and it looked incredibly complex.
There are definitely some areas to nitpick on results but on the whole, relative to other AVRs it sure seems fine to me. And it has Dirac for those wanting to go that route. If you are a roon subscriber, it will be a joy to use I am sure as well.

 

[Phorze]

I do not hear the fan on mine

Mine is only audible if i push my amp. Such as an entire Dirac calibration on reference volume. And even then, not really from my listening position 3 m away

 

[BDWoody]

That I will do although a side-by-side comparison is very difficult.

Have you considered enlisting the membership for larger scale testing of speakers/room correction/etc? Setting up these tests, as you say, has to be a monstrous PITA...maybe leverage the time to both get help, and a supply of ears for the trouble by having quarterly or semi-annual junkets.

It seems like you are getting your speaker testing dialed in, and it also seems like you are starting to identify areas that deserve more exploration with actual listening tests with a range of listeners. I'm sure many of us would be happy for an excuse to help more.

Obviously, I'm thinking of when 'things' get to where gatherings can be organized safely...before I get accused of trying to kill anyone...

 

[voodooless]

Based on the measurements, withHDMI / streaming this product should sound good, right?

Why would I expect a $/€ 3000,- device to just sound "good"? The architecture of the NAD is a lot simpler than the Denon/Marantz. The lack of an analog path means they can rip out a lot of crap that actually degrades SINAD. Even with that it's 6dB off from Denon for the pre-amp section.

And yes, Dirac is indeed a major feature, and might result in an arguably better sounding system than a comparable Denon with Audyssey. It's still no excuse. Especially if you look at the implementation of the amp, they should have done better. It's not just the single -80 number. The original Hypex spec is not that far off at 5W, but below that, it actually looks much better on the Hypex spec sheet. It's clear that some corners were cut, also visible by the lower quality output coils used vs the ones on the Hypex OEM version. All so that they could make a bit more money. Als long as people keep finding this acceptable and no good alternatives are available, these products will be made and sold.