My Kingdom For A Remote Volume Knob! can this be made?

[DrSpan]

So i must admit i might have missed something in the sea of information but does any of these software volume controllers
have a „Finite“ rotation like an analog one or are they all „Infinite Rotation“ based? I would really like one with Finite rotation if possible

 

[MCH]

So i must admit i might have missed something in the sea of information but does any of these software volume controllers
have a „Finite“ rotation like an analog one or are they all „Infinite Rotation“ based? I would really like one with Finite rotation if possible

I guess encoders exist that report absolute position, but there is an intrinsic problem with this approach. When you change the volume by other means, for instance with the knob of the amp, then either the remote knob is motorised (that will use a lot of battery) or next time you touch it you might have a large volume jump.
My 2cents, maybe someone has solved that, i.e. with a knob that doesn't turn physically but is tactile. But I think people in this thread aim to an old school knob that you can turn.

 

[DrSpan]

I guess encoders exist that report absolute position, but there is an intrinsic problem with this approach. When you change the volume by other means, for instance with the knob of the amp, then either the remote knob is motorised (that will use a lot of battery) or next time you touch it you might have a large volume jump.
My 2cents, maybe someone has solved that, i.e. with a knob that doesn't turn physically but is tactile. But I think people in this thread aim to an old school knob that you can turn.

I am not sure i understand you 100% "When you change the volume by other means, for instance with the knob of the amp“
If i change the output of an external amp why would it affect my laptops system output dials?

"maybe someone has solved that, i.e. with a knob that doesn't turn physically but is tactile“
this sentence i don`t really understand i must admit. What do you mean with „doesn`t turn physically“ you mean a tactile thing like the Loudspeaker Up and Down volume above the keybard like?
In short, I want a Rotary Knob that does Exactly what the small and big speaker symbols do on my macbook but in a Finite motion range.
If the volume is changed via different means-elsewhere , then there could be a „Take Over“ function (don`t know how its called in english )
where you move-turn the knob and when you hit the same value as where the volume is currently it will then „lock“ to it and drag it along.
Similarly the way Preset Capable synths where you have to turn the knob until it hits the presets stored value. These knobs are often Finite.
Like on my Korg Minilogue Xd for example. Something like this. I mean i see that the Volume on my laptop are divided in finite steps. There must be a way to what i wish for?
I find Infinite encoder a horror in tactile feeling or when you are not looking at it. Without looking there is no way to know what value you are at.
On my Spl 2 Control that i sold , i had a marker and knew „at 9 o`clock its X loud and at 12 it is insanely loud“ and this way always new where a mix is dynamic range wise cause the interface was at a fixed output number. With the infinite knob i have to constantly control where i am at

forgive my poor english please

 

[pseudoid]

So i must admit i might have missed something in the sea of information but does any of these software volume controllers
have a „Finite“ rotation like an analog one or are they all „Infinite Rotation“ based? I would really like one with Finite rotation if possible

Not sure but I am going to suggest an alternative 'fix'... that may also NOT exist.
Would an "infinite" rotation volume knob --BUT with a 2-digit display-- partially accomplish your desire?
Most audio equipment provide such a relative-level (dBr) 2-digit display.

 

[DrSpan]

Not sure but I am going to suggest an alternative 'fix'... that may also NOT exist.
Would an "infinite" rotation volume knob --BUT with a 2-digit display-- partially accomplish your desire?
Most audio equipment provide such a relative-level (dBr) 2-digit display.

Hi there .
Thank you for the suggestion. Unfortunately looking at digits is what i am trying to avoid.
As i wrote in another comment:
"On my Spl 2 Control that i sold , i had a marker and knew „at 9 o`clock its X loud and at 12 it is insanely loud“ and this way always new where a mix is dynamic range wise cause the interface was at a fixed output number. With the infinite knob i have to constantly control where i am at .

I coudl blindly know how i need to mix cause i knew how loud each position is. If i rely on digits i can do it now and don`t really need an extra knob cause i can look at my motu and it tells me its values in Db

Hope i make sense

 

[somebodyelse]

If i change the output of an external amp why would it affect my laptops system output dials?

You didn't mention you were after a control for your laptop, and a lot of this thread has been about infrared remotes for amps, hence the answer assuming amps.

For the laptop it's doable, but a whole lot harder than the infinite knob. Those just have to send standard volume up/down button presses for each click left or right, as if they were a bluetooth or usb keyboard. There isn't an equivalent for setting absolute volume (rather than just up/down), or signalling volume back to the remote when you press your laptop's volume buttons or use its on screen controls. It could be done, but you'd need to write a driver or daemon and implement some custom communication, so a fair bit more complicated.

 

[DrSpan]

You didn't mention you were after a control for your laptop, and a lot of this thread has been about infrared remotes for amps, hence the answer assuming amps.

For the laptop it's doable, but a whole lot harder than the infinite knob. Those just have to send standard volume up/down button presses for each click left or right, as if they were a bluetooth or usb keyboard. There isn't an equivalent for setting absolute volume (rather than just up/down), or signalling volume back to the remote when you press your laptop's volume buttons or use its on screen controls. It could be done, but you'd need to write a driver or daemon and implement some custom communication, so a fair bit more complicated.

Sorry just discovered your comment.
So i will insert text from my other thread. Its my Korg Minilogue Xd Synthesizer which has Finite and Infinite Knobs on it.
* I am regarding to the Finite Rotation Encoders in the text below
"The Finite rotation ones seem to have an incredible (for me) resolution. For example the „Pitch“ knob. I can see the Semitones changing on the display.
So i started counting how many steps it makes. I started slowly turning the knob and at 1/2 of the rotation-travel i counted +/- 85-ish increments when i arrived at 12` clock , at which point i lost count . It is hard to keep track cause there was so many steps . they where easily more than 80 increments but i lost count at some points. So the knob can theoretically to 160-170 „steps“ of anything you apply to it i guess? Also they go -1200 semitones to +1200semi every time so the end and start point are always spot on
Also when turning you dont feel Steps or anything. It feels like an old analog Potentiometer with nice resistance.
So what kind of thing are we talking here?“

So if someone build a Volume controller using this type of encoder. Do you see a downside? Cause its not my field of expertise but it seems to me like
the perfect way to achieve my goal. Only of course i can not build such a thing.

 

[somebodyelse]

It feels like an old analog Potentiometer with nice resistance.

It probably is an analog pot connected to an 8 bit ADC with the value scaled to whatever is needed. That gives you 256 steps. It's a common thing to do with microcontrollers and DSP chips. https://arduinogetstarted.com/tutorials/arduino-potentiometer

If I've understood correctly you want a remote with a motorised volume pot to control the volume on your laptop. The downside is as I mentioned - it requires software on the laptop end to set the volume when you change it on the remote knob, and to send volume changes caused by anything else back to the remote so a motor can move the knob to the new position. That's a load more complicated than just sending standard volume up/down key presses for each notch on an encoder that just keeps turning.

 

[DrSpan]

It probably is an analog pot connected to an 8 bit ADC with the value scaled to whatever is needed. That gives you 256 steps. It's a common thing to do with microcontrollers and DSP chips. https://arduinogetstarted.com/tutorials/arduino-potentiometer

If I've understood correctly you want a remote with a motorised volume pot to control the volume on your laptop. The downside is as I mentioned - it requires software on the laptop end to set the volume when you change it on the remote knob, and to send volume changes caused by anything else back to the remote so a motor can move the knob to the new position. That's a load more complicated than just sending standard volume up/down key presses for each notch on an encoder that just keeps turning.

Oh my. I think i have not expressed my self-plan-wish in the best way.

Tbh i don`t know where this whole „remote“ idea comes from. I think i never mentioned wanting a remote. I might have said it in a different context.

In short i want a Line Level Volume Controller of high quality that i can place between my Motu Ultralite Mk5 and my MiniDsp Flex.
Reason is , i am mixing music. So each time i isolate a channel , element, do editing etc i many times have to isolate and then be able to raise the volume
significantly (manually since i am sitting at a desk all day) in order to „zoom in“ acoustically and then be able to immediately lower the volume.
This process takes places dozens to hundreds of times a day.
However the Flex needs 19 Rotations to go from 0 to 100% gain. It is simply not usable for me.

So i am looking for a Manual Volume Controller. Something like an Spl Volume 2 or alternatives. Passive solutions i find very impedance dependant and sometimes very „funky and unpredictable“ but am also open if someone had some solution that is very neutral and stable.

As i am not printing the mix through this signal, only monitoring , it does not have to be the best in the universe and costing 5000euros but it has to have a certain quality level that does degrade-alter the signal as little as possible.

Hope this is clearer now…

 

[somebodyelse]

Much clearer thanks - that sounds familiar from another thread, but not mentioned in this one about wireless remotes. It's not a product area I'm familiar with so can't really help you with alternatives, and I don't remember anything like that being measured here so far. Possibility of a physical remote controller for the Ultralite Mk5 came up recently in another thread but so far it's not been tried. I've not looked into whether something similar might be possible for the Flex. Any reason not to go for the SPL?

 

[DrSpan]

Much clearer thanks - that sounds familiar from another thread, but not mentioned in this one about wireless remotes. It's not a product area I'm familiar with so can't really help you with alternatives, and I don't remember anything like that being measured here so far. Possibility of a physical remote controller for the Ultralite Mk5 came up recently in another thread but so far it's not been tried. I've not looked into whether something similar might be possible for the Flex. Any reason not to go for the SPL?

"that sounds familiar from another thread,“ i am far beyond remembering what in which thread i am afraid….. So much information.

"Any reason not to go for the SPL?“ Not really apart from size and that i am always open to know more about possible choices or suggestions of different solutiuons i haven`t thought of. The more i know the more ideas i get

 

[somebodyelse]

The downside is as I mentioned - it requires software on the laptop end to set the volume when you change it on the remote knob, and to send volume changes caused by anything else back to the remote so a motor can move the knob to the new position. That's a load more complicated than just sending standard volume up/down key presses for each notch on an encoder that just keeps turning.

I was wrong - there is a bluetooth standard that includes both setting absolute volume and reporting volume changes:
https://www.bluetooth.com/wp-conten...ion/HTML/77401-VCS-html5/out/en/index-en.html

 

[somebodyelse]

There's a nice tutorial for making a bluetooth volume knob. I think there are enough pins left that you could add an more buttons for media control, or maybe an IR transmitter. I'm assuming there's a nice CircuitPython library for IR remotes, but there might not be.
https://learn.adafruit.com/bluetooth-le-hid-volume-knob-with-circuitpython/overview

 

[DrSpan]

There's a nice tutorial for making a bluetooth volume knob. I think there are enough pins left that you could add an more buttons for media control, or maybe an IR transmitter. I'm assuming there's a nice CircuitPython library for IR remotes, but there might not be.
https://learn.adafruit.com/bluetooth-le-hid-volume-knob-with-circuitpython/overview

Thanks. Will watch it

 

[tomchris]

Steinway got back to me. They don't sell this to punters like me. Only as part of an expensive system. Which is what I figured.

Hi Matt,

I remembered that you expressed interest in the Steinway P200 remote. I found one on eBay! I thought you would like to know
https://www.ebay.com/itm/186418770389

 

[MattHooper]

Hi Matt,

I remembered that you expressed interest in the Steinway P200 remote. I found one on eBay! I thought you would like to know
https://www.ebay.com/itm/186418770389

Thank you!

However, I learned early on that the remote was proprietary and so I could use it. That’s why I went another direction and had a different one built. However, the same company that built mine felt they could also build one like the Steinway if I wanted.

 

[Mehdiem]

Thank you!

However, I learned early on that the remote was proprietary and so I could use it. That’s why I went another direction and had a different one built. However, the same company that built mine felt they could also build one like the Steinway if I wanted.

Could share some info about who did build it for you? I'm wondering how responsive is it? Do you experience any delay between when you turn the knob and when the volume changes ? Also, could you reprogram it to be used with any other infrared device if you later decide to change your devicev

 

[MattHooper]

Could share some info about who did build it for you? I'm wondering how responsive is it? Do you experience any delay between when you turn the knob and when the volume changes ? Also, could you reprogram it to be used with any other infrared device if you later decide to change your devicev

Company Info starting here:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?posts/1366218/bookmark

Finished remote description here:

My Kingdom For A Remote Volume Knob! can this be made?

I’ve been using the Surface Dial to control volume through Roon using rooDial for a few months now. Occasionally it loses contact with the Rpi. Otherwise works really well. The ability to reach over and adjust volume without looking at anything and to stop the music with a press is very...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Yes, we’ve dialled in the knob to be as responsive as I like. No annoying delay.
Yes, any inferred commands can be learned.

 

[egellings]

I was watching an old Darko video in which he discussed his appreciation for being able to control an audio system with a remote volume knob.

He gets to the "why" of this around 51 seconds in:

I was like: YES! Someone gets me!

I place a high value on the combination of ergonomics and aesthetics and the "feel" of equipment.

When I'm streaming my digital music in my system I'm using my iPhone as the remote (or iPad), so that just feels like, well...using my damned iphone again. Like I do all day long. There isn't anything particularly "nice" about the feel of using my phone or ipad for this purpose. For volume I can use the iphone (using logitech server software) but I often prefer to leave the volume at 0 and adjust volume via my pre-amp remote (or universal remote control). Again...pretty much held hostage to the feel of the supplied remote, or my universal remote.
Eh.

What I'd REALLY LOVE is just what Darko describes in the video: a big ol' physical volume knob to control volume, right at my listening position. Ideally one that looks super high quality and lux, and feels that way. I could even imagine a nice wood knob as the dial.

I once had this when I used a Museatex Bidat DAC, which could be run directly in to my amps, the volume was a wired remote control - a dial on a little wood block like this:

View attachment 211845

Not exactly luxurious, but it's the general idea.

I did a fairly extensive search on the web and there doesn't seem to be a product like the one I'm describing. There is the occasional product with a knob remote control, but it's usually proprietary to the device in question. There are remote knobs that you can set up via blue tooth or wired to your computer, but that doesn't solve it either. (My Apogee Duet usb audio interface I use with my DAW has a nice volume knob, though doesn't do exactly what I'm asking).

I have both analog sources (turntable) and digital, running through my preamp in to my system.

So what I'd need is a remote volume knob that is also able to learn or download remote commands to control either my LA4 or Conrad Johnson preamps. Right now those are controlled with their own remotes (and an IR repeater system).

Lacking any finished product I wondered if such a learning volume knob could be built custom. But I have no idea if there are any sort of "computer module" parts that would constitute the "learning remote codes" part somehow in concert with some potentiometer section or whatever?

To be honest, this post is more curiosity about how difficult such a project would be more than any likelihood I'd engage in trying to build one. And among the vast experience on this site, perhaps someone has actually come across something like this, or used one before.

Don't know why a shaft encoder could not be used to implement that.

 

[VintageFlanker]

Looks like @Fosi Audio is planning one :

Customizable RGB light for your desktop#fosiaudio #volume #volumeup #volumecontrol #volumeknob #multimedia #pc #desktop #desktopsetup #setup #music #RGB #RGBLighting #rgblights | Fosi Audio Gear

Customizable RGB light for your desktop#fosiaudio #volume #volumeup #volumecontrol #volumeknob #multimedia #pc #desktop #desktopsetup #setup #music #RGB #RGBLighting #rgblights.

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