my first audiophile hifi setup

[Nullqube]

Hi
I'm a newbie but sure an audiophile. Want some help to decide what to buy as my first audiophile hifi setup.
At first i tried the klipsch speaker with denon axr85 sounds like trhough a tunnel. Then went with marantz 7000n with polk xt70 , much better detail but boomy and cloudy .
Then i came across the R3 with denon 800 , more detail better bass , couldn't choose my song, it was a jazz, so i liked it. But still wasn't the satisfaction choice.
I read about rega and benchmark ahb2 and I think transparency since it's a phase is that's what I want. I don't like bassy boomy sound.
When I'm alone i would listen to roxk but not heavy metal like dinger eleven, the doors, pink floyd, Sing alone by dave matthew and blue man group
But i' also like to my room fill with estas tonne gituar
And when party people get going by electronic and mixed from soundcloud.

My budget can be around 5000$ o 6
Also I really want to learn about sound technical aspect and I'm a programmer and I can through charts and details basically that's where I live.
Since I'm in a city that can't listen to all combination so should buy online.
Also if there are any source, book, website , ... to learn more about sound please give me a hint.

Also I bake sourdough bread as hobby in the house , if anyone want receipts or help I can tell ))

 

[BDWoody]

Welcome!

Congratulations on deciding to put together a nice system for yourself. For that budget, you can certainly set yourself up nicely.

My suggestion is to start with your speakers, and go backwards from there. Don't spend too much time worrying about the electronics at this point, as that will get sorted as you go

How big is your room? How important are aesthetics (my JBL 708Ps are great, but fugly for example)? How far will you be sitting from the speakers? Are you in a space where you will be able to play loud, and specifically loud bass without disturbing neighbors? These answers will help to narrow things down to some great options.

In the mean time, start reading anything that catches your eye on this site. It will start to make more sense as you learn what matters and what doesn't.

 

[Nullqube]

By the way my living room is near 50m 6x9 square and I have to keep my neighbors considered.
Not too loud. But If it's a good system I can keep it for long time and then perhaps a bigger apartment with need of a louder system.

 

[voodooless]

So you listed a couple of systems? Did you listen to them in your own room? In some store? A single store?

See, the tricky thing is, something sounding well in one room, may not sound well in another. For a good demo, always try to get the things to your home.

The next thing to consider is the room itself. It will have a significant impact on the sound quality. if you are unwilling to make changes to the room, room correction is a good way to mitigate some of the room issue. In fact, even if you can make changes, room correction is probably still advisable. You can get this via many ways:
- Most current AVR have room correction like form Dirac or Audyssey.
- Some more advanced stereo receivers have it as well (mostly Dirac)
- You can buy DACs with room correction features (like from miniDSP
- Some active speaker comes with it integrated like from Neumann or Genelec (and a few others)

I'm always a fan of powered speakers. No worries about amps and DAC's, and get room correction build in.

Have a look at Neumann KH150 for instance:

Neumann KH 150 Monitor Review

This is a review, listening tests and measurements of the Neumann KH150 DSP 2-way studio monitor (active speaker). It is on loan from the company and costs US $1,750 (each). The design language is not changed of course. The main woofer is 6.5 inches now powered by 120 watt dedicated...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Should fit within your budget and there will be money left for a sub.

As for passives, it will be hard to beat the R3s. There is a new Meta version out though. It's a bit better. What did you not like about the R3?

 

[Doodski]

Also I bake sourdough bread as hobby in the house , if anyone want receipts or help I can tell ))

Yes, I want a recipe for sourdough/monster dough that lives in the refrigerator and can be mixed with more ingredients.

 

[Doodski]

You have a large room @ 50m 6x9 square. Do you want large speakers or small speakers with subwoofers?

 

[DSJR]

May I chip in please?

My recommendation in later years was always to suggest going to as many live unamplified music concerts and gigs as possible, to get a 'feel' for the sound of unamplified instruments. I appreciate you're not going to get quite the intensity of a real instrument once it's been recorded and mixed, but the kind of 'monitors' suggested here constantly should make a better stab at it I feel, compared to typical domestic boxes which have all manner of compromises and tuning for a more 'audiophile' rather than ' concert/gig attending music lover' kind of audience. The tech side which is so very important here can be really helpful, but still nothing can beat listening to the speakers themselves. You're luckyin having a room that should enable free-space siting rather than jamming the boxes against a wall or heaven forbid, a corner

 

[Nullqube]

I liked the R3 , wasn't sure about the amp

 

[Keith_W]

Do you have complete freedom to place your speakers anywhere you want in your room? Do you have any aesthetic considerations or limitations, e.g. do you mind something that looks a bit ugly, or does it need to look pretty? Does your room have a lot of furniture, especially soft furnishings? Do you need to listen loud, or do you prefer soft? And finally, do you have a preference for a certain type of sound?

My usual recommendations for people who are starting out with this hobby are:

- keep it simple: NO DSP, subwoofers, measurements, room correction, or anything else that ASR usually recommends. Those things can come later. For a first system, you do not want to overcomplicate your learning curve. Buy your speakers and source (CD player, streamer, computer, etc), get it set up, and start enjoying music first. Then once you understand more, and if you want to get more serious, then you can get a microphone and all the other hardware and software.
- Your speakers have to match your room and where you want to place it.
- Speakers which are active (i.e. have built in amplifiers) are the easiest way to start. If you like, you could also go with separates (amplifier + passive speaker). There are many other types of speaker, e.g. horns, panels, and more exotic types but they require a bit of knowledge and skill so I don't recommend them unless you REALLY like that kind of sound.
- KNOW WHAT YOU WANT. This is probably the hardest part about starting any new hobby. But like any hobby, you have to set goals and work towards them.

 

[Triliza]

Do you have any plans to expand the system in a multichannel for a home cinema at a latter time? Where are you based, US or Europe, for some speakers the availability and prices are vastly different.

 

[FrantzM]

Hi
Welcome to ASR @Nullqube !

Trying to keep it short. It is rare that you will get great sound at the first turn on.. Regardless of the intrinsic qualities of the components. Prepare yourself for a journey, toward achieving superb sound. It is these days within reach with your budget.

I would advise to get an AVR, yes, an Audio Video Receiver. We will discuss the reasons for, later. Keep that in mind, Yes I know you only want two channels, the recommendation remains the same. AVR. I'd put $1500.00 for a good solid AVR. The best speaker on the planet, can sound bad if some care is not taken. The room in which the system is installed, has a great , some would say the greatest, influence on the final sound. So if you can find ways to mitigate the effect of the room , then your "best speaker on the planet", will indeed sound as such. Thing is the better AVRs have "something" that can mitigate, the room effects in the final sound, a Digital Room Correction, DRC for short.. So keep it there. You need a receiver, we all need an AVR . I have an AVR .. this after several years or (sometimes very expensive) Preamplifiers + "Monoblocks". Best sound in my (quite long and varied) experience my AVR.

Then speakers. Your are left with $4500 in your budget. For your room and since you don't listen that loud, I would recommend , the BMR Philharmonic Tower @ $4000/pair.
If you want to go active, Neumann KH-150 or the Revel F36

Then purchase a UMik-1 $125.00
Then purchase the TRUTHEAR Crinnacle Zero (TCZ for short) IEM, $50,oo. One of the best IEMs on the market regardless of price. One of the best transducers on the market. Period, better than most IEM or headphone even to some 50 times or more, its price, better than most speakers.. BETTER, by far. Yes, it, is,... Fifty US Dollars no typo. Call it a sanity check when you are "tuning" your speakers system. . Good to know where your system is headed. and superb for music listening., period.
Then come back here at ASR, ask questions.
Recommendations:
Denon AVR-X3800H $1500.oo You don't budge from this
Speakers : BMR Philharmonic Tower $3500? or Neuman KH 150 about same price... or for less a pair of Revel F36 an outlier not well known it seems but stellar nonetheless...
miniDSP Umik-1 $125.oo It is a microphone we will discuss about it later
TCZ $50.oo.

Then you come back here often while enjoying music.

Peace.

Peace

 

[Nullqube]

Ok my room have one set of sofa and one dinning table and a drawer and two flower pot and that's about it.
Also I live in lran and don't have the chance to test many option personally so I have to rely on specs and you guys opinion, and that's a very reason I opended this post.
I only test couple of setup and most noticable ones for me were polk x70 and marantz 7000N and denon 800 with R3 in two different shops.
After that I just searched and reading other's reviews and ideas , and then I thoight I may choose Benchmark AHB2 with R3.
Also tested Dali but it was a very short and think it was Roubicon 2, good sound but just fine no space between details, with NAD amp
Also knew about genelec monitoring speaker but the seller told me it's not good for home use .
And about sound taste:
I like clarity and smoothness of sound.
Details, details, details, and the space between them. Kinda poetically , spritual. No dub dub and boom boom.
Polk was warm but lacks the details, I don't know that's on amp or the speaker.
R3 was better but perhaps too loud for me, and need a minimum certain of volume to shine, on low volume maybe a bit matted.

I PLAN TO USE MY SYSTEM MOSTLY FROM SMARTPHONE THROUGH BLUETOOTH OR CABLE IF POSSIBLE. And not with TV

 

[voodooless]

I PLAN TO USE MY SYSTEM MOSTLY FROM SMARTPHONE THROUGH BLUETOOTH OR CABLE IF POSSIBLE.

That is really not a good idea generally. Bluetooth audio isn't the best, So I would recommend at least using a line-out cable. A halfway decent phone should give an okay performance. But pairing this with an AHB2 would be a total waste. In that case, spend some money on a DAC and streamer so you can wirelessly stream music to the system.

I think an AHB2 would be a waste of money anyway. You better spend most of the money on the speakers.

 

[BDWoody]

Also knew about genelec monitoring speaker but the seller told me it's not good for home use .

I think you'll find a lot of disagreement around here.

A nice pair of Genelecs, or JBLs, or Neumanns can be an excellent choice.

An advantage of many of the 'monitor' speakers is they are typically active, meaning the amplifier decision is already made, and they may also have digital input, meaning the DAC is taken care of as well.

Don't dismiss them quite so quickly...

 

[DVDdoug]

I like clarity and smoothness of sound.
Details, details, details, and the space between them.

Repeating what others have said, speakers and the room. "Boomy" is most likely room resonances unless your speakers are terrible.

There is a link somewhere here by Dan Clark (headphone manufacturer) about headphone testing, and he says distortion is sometimes perceived as "more detail"!!!

I don't know that's on amp or the speaker.

Almost all modern electronics has flat frequency response and low distortion unless over-driven onto clipping. Sometimes there is audible noise (background hiss, hum, or whine). A properly working amplifier won't affect "clarity" or the boominess, etc. Most amplifiers, receivers, electronics sound the same or very-nearly the same.

The opposite is true with speakers and headphones (and microphones, which are also transducers). Every speaker/headphone sounds different, and a speaker will sound different in a different room.

Most "acoustic problems" are in the lower and lower-mid frequencies, below 500Hz. And "basic acoustic panels" don't do much for these frequencies. They can sometimes make it worse by absorbing the higher frequencies Deep bass is also the most difficult thing for a speaker.

With headphones there is almost no correlation between sound quality and price. You can see that if you sort the ASR reviews by "recommended". But of course, "audiophiles" prefer whatever is the most expensive.

Turning-up the treble with EQ may help with "clarity" and "detail", especially at low volumes. The high frequencies (cymbals, "T" & "S" sounds, etc.) in regular music are weak compared to the rest of the spectrum and they can be lost at low volumes. Normally you need to boost the bass too because our ears become less sensitive to bass as the volume is turned down, but not when the sound is boomy. Yo may need to turn-down the bass.

R3 was better but perhaps too loud for me

You've got a volume control!

WARNING - MOST of the "audiophile" community is nuts! They tend to use all kinds of meaningless (non-scientific non-engineering) words that invoke a feeling rather than describing the true characteristics of the sound. And they tend to avoid measurements and blind listening tests. ASR and HydrogenAudio are exceptions. And see Audiophoolery

 

[fpitas]

Also knew about genelec monitoring speaker but the seller told me it's not good for home use .

Often, if the seller doesn't carry a brand, that influences his opinion

 

[muslhead]

Hi
I'm a newbie but sure an audiophile. Want some help to decide what to buy as my first audiophile hifi setup.
At first i tried the klipsch speaker with denon axr85 sounds like trhough a tunnel. Then went with marantz 7000n with polk xt70 , much better detail but boomy and cloudy .
Then i came across the R3 with denon 800 , more detail better bass , couldn't choose my song, it was a jazz, so i liked it. But still wasn't the satisfaction choice.
I read about rega and benchmark ahb2 and I think transparency since it's a phase is that's what I want. I don't like bassy boomy sound.
When I'm alone i would listen to roxk but not heavy metal like dinger eleven, the doors, pink floyd, Sing alone by dave matthew and blue man group
But i' also like to my room fill with estas tonne gituar
And when party people get going by electronic and mixed from soundcloud.

My budget can be around 5000$ o 6
Also I really want to learn about sound technical aspect and I'm a programmer and I can through charts and details basically that's where I live.
Since I'm in a city that can't listen to all combination so should buy online.
Also if there are any source, book, website , ... to learn more about sound please give me a hint.

Also I bake sourdough bread as hobby in the house , if anyone want receipts or help I can tell ))

How do you get the sourdough to be sour. I purchased some starter from SF which is used to make much of the sourdough bread in the area (my favorite) but mine still is not sour. Prefer to not add any alkaline ingredients to the mix (other than sour starter)

 

[Keith_W]

The problem with Genelecs is that they are ugly. They were designed for reliability and performance in a professional studio, and they are more than suitable for home use. Provided you can get past the looks. They certainly don't compare to those beautiful looking speakers designed to look nice in your house. If you don't mind how they look, then I heartily recommend them.

And BTW, the founder of this site is Persian, like you.

 

[fpitas]

The problem with Genelecs is that they are ugly. They were designed for reliability and performance in a professional studio, and they are more than suitable for home use. Provided you can get past the looks. They certainly don't compare to those beautiful looking speakers designed to look nice in your house. If you don't mind how they look, then I heartily recommend them.

And BTW, the founder of this site is Persian, like you.

I don't mind their looks, but then I'm not crazy about how a lot of high-end speakers look.

 

[TimW]

Just going to throw out the March Audio Sointuva, one of the best measuring passive speakers out there with state of the art drivers and some beautiful finish options. Need a powerful amp to drive it so I would recommend a Hypex to fit in your budget.

Also, amplifier brands and models really don't matter for sound quality. Pretty much any amp driven within its limits sounds the same as any other. Just purchases electronics based on their features, specs, appearance, quality, after sales support etc. Don't think that a Marantz will make your speakers sound completely different than a Denon for example, that's just silly nonsense that is reinforced by placebo.