We're all just humans
And cats are humans, too! But I'm not so sure about the robots among us.
We're all just humans
Unless you are posting in the Sound Science section, Head-Fi mods will remove any posts that mention blind or ABX testing because they are "off-topic."
I think a lot of us wound up here after (in some cases) years of being on audiophile sites and getting so sick of reading preposterous conversations about the sound of wires or electronics that we couldn't stand it anymore. Not to mention the fact that when we dared to post our thoughts about such things on these forums we were responded to with either insults or just plain hatred.
My experience too, and I think you are completely correct.I work in a place we are like 1000 Engineers and I know a lot of people there, SW and HW , and I only know we are 5 (If I add friends too) that have some good HiFi systems at home (and all 2nd hand stuff), ok 1 is what we could call gear crazy audiophile
Heres the thing , I know a few audio dealers and more importantly distributors and I can tell you people demand more expensive products. If something is too cheap for them its a deal breaker .I think a lot of us wound up here after (in some cases) years of being on audiophile sites and getting so sick of reading preposterous conversations about the sound of wires or electronics that we couldn't stand it anymore. Not to mention the fact that when we dared to post our thoughts about such things on these forums we were responded to with either insults or just plain hatred. I swore off stereophile after reading a review of a $54,000
amplifier in which the reviewer waxes poetic about the sound in such silly and imaginative prose that this review has to be read to be believed.
And when he stated that "the sound quality is commensurate with the price" I had finally had enough. I've not been back to stereophile since. What bothers me about reviews like this is that the idea that someone would buy this amp is truly offensive to me. Normally I don't begrudge what people want to spend their money on. It's their business and who am I to judge?" But there's something about a 54K amp that just drives me nuts.
Considering all of the worthwhile things which one could spend their money on this seems like self-gratification on an obscene scale. Not to mention profoundly stupid. Sorry for the rant. Just my opinion.
Heres the thing , I know a few audio dealers and more importantly distributors...
Yes I agree mate , very common behaviour often as you say dressed up to be something very different.Manufacturers, too.
But Amir has tested some really expensive items that performed superbly, and deserve praise no matter how much they cost. Those items would serve those who need or want to spend a lot, and would also reward good engineering and product design.
I don't think it's the job of controlled testing or performance measurement to judge people for spending a lot. It's simply the job of testing and measurement to tell people how products perform. I sometimes think many here have more anti-wealth sentiments than anti-myth-and-lore objectives. I see the same anti-wealth antagonists on watch forums.
Rick "brand and beauty are valid discriminators in addition to functional performance" Denney
Manufacturers, too.
But Amir has tested some really expensive items that performed superbly, and deserve praise no matter how much they cost. Those items would serve those who need or want to spend a lot, and would also reward good engineering and product design.
I don't think it's the job of controlled testing or performance measurement to judge people for spending a lot. It's simply the job of testing and measurement to tell people how products perform. I sometimes think many here have more anti-wealth sentiments than anti-myth-and-lore objectives. I see the same anti-wealth antagonists on watch forums.
Rick "brand and beauty are valid discriminators in addition to functional performance" Denney
Heres the thing , I know a few audio dealers and more importantly distributors and I can tell you people demand more expensive products. If something is too cheap for them its a deal breaker .
Its a need , they literally need it to cost more to feel secure about its quality and function.
These aren't all terrible people either . Humans are strange beasts .
You'd think @amirm would of learned the lessons of ' what not to do ' after the ...,Decades ago I was looking at a used preamp priced at $450 (a princely sum for me at the time). The dealer commented it hadn't sold because it was priced too low... He bumped it to $750 and sold it a few days later. Probably coincidental but a lesson learned... People tend to associate "price" with "quality". For too many things these days, and probably back then, that is not a valid presumption.
As for humans being strange beasts, you worked for Amir, right? Not sure what the says about the strangeness of either of you...
One point that I find to be quite amusing is the notion that "science" and measurements should be the final say in any argument. As a scientist, the heated debates that are frequent at scientific meetings should dispel this notion forthright. Even in the heightened realm of science there is ample room for disagreement!!
Fully agree! My comment was more on invoking science as a debate point and not on copper vs silver cables. I do not believe that there is any audible difference between the two in almost any relevant home sound system setup. But that is my informed opinion!So the science is unproven if you (anybody, not "you" you) claim silver sounds different than copper wire in an interconnect? There are plenty of places where science is unproven or preferences rule over "science", but in some areas I would have thought the science is more than good enough.
The problem I have with these sorts of debates IME/IMO is that I'll almost never use an absolute like "there is no difference between silver and copper"; of course there is, and I can measure it, but for an audio interconnect the differences are inaudible. Again IME/IMO. But if it matters to me in my day job, at 10's of GHz, then somebody will claim it is audible, so I tend to ignore my little engineering voice and say "there is no difference". If all we have are opinions, and the science is never provable, then we might as well close up ASR and give Amir some time off.
Preferences matter, and can be influenced by a myriad of things, but where fights tend to break out is when somebody feels somebody else is making claims against "reasonable" (sorry) science and pushing some (generally expensive) solution to a problem most feel is proven inaudible.
Of course there is a lot of grey area, but I cringe when I go with my son to pick up new speakers and the salesman tells him he needs to spend hundreds of dollars on speaker wire "good enough" for his new speakers. What if I were not there to say no? But of course maybe I am causing him to miss lots of fine musical details but not chipping in for expensive cables... It never ends.