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Message to golden-eared audiophiles posting at ASR for the first time...

TheBatsEar

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Also, why all the animosity towards "audiophile" doesn't it really describe those who have a passion for music and the components we love to play with?

We are talking about idiots, not audiophiles as a group. I'm not making a case against regular folk.

I'm making a case against the desire to have harmony, because it comes at a cost. As it is, the forum works fine. But once you remove those that call the BS, to gain harmony, you enter a world of pain. I have seen it in other places, mods will eventually favor harmony to please the masses, keep their job simple or keep advertisers happy. It sucks. :rolleyes:


ABX testing can help you if you are unsure if power cables make a difference. You can do it at home yourself. Spoiler: Power cables don't make a noticeable difference in "musicality" or "staging".:p
 

TheBatsEar

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Define "Reasonably Priced."
Is your userpicture some kind of colorblindness test? Because if it is, i think i failed. It's just a red circle with a green circle with a yellow dot in it, isn't it?
 

righthookmike

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We are talking about idiots, not audiophiles as a group. I'm not making a case against regular folk.

I'm making a case against the desire to have harmony, because it comes at a cost. As it is, the forum works fine. But once you remove those that call the BS, to gain harmony, you enter a world of pain. I have seen it in other places, mods will eventually favor harmony to please the masses, keep their job simple or keep advertisers happy. It sucks. :rolleyes:


ABX testing can help you if you are unsure if power cables make a difference. You can do it at home yourself. Spoiler: Power cables don't make a noticeable difference in "musicality" or "staging".:p
I am all in with you on calling out BS, a cable affecting performance could make a noticeable difference right?
 

TheBatsEar

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I am all in with you on calling out BS, a cable affecting performance could make a noticeable difference right?

You have to use properly rated powercables, not sure what rules you have to follow, but around here it's VDI, CE and so on. Usually the manufacturers powercables are just safe and fine, or else they wouldn't get certified.

But aren't we talking about special sauce cables, you know, those that you can buy to replace your manufacturers cable for more musicality? You think they may possibly make a difference?
 

Robin L

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HMMMM. Is this the beginning of a negotiation? My budget right now would be 3,000. I haven't bought new speakers since 1987 when I found an envelope of cash taped to the wall of a closet when moving into an apartment. I am looking used unless it's something special
My current pair [a/d/s 400s, white metal enclosures] was $20, the attached powered sub about $50 at most. So . . .

Probably my best deal was the set of 4 Infinity Primus Towers and center for $79 at Amvets. Add three powered [used] subs for around $120 total, an Onkyo AV receiver for $50, an Oppo DVD/universal player for $30. On the cheap end of the scale, the Primus speakers are probably still pretty good. But it looks like they're no longer made, so you'd have to look for used.
 

righthookmike

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You have to use properly rated powercables, not sure what rules you have to follow, but around here it's VDI, CE and so on. Usually the manufacturers powercables are just safe and fine, or else they wouldn't get certified.

But aren't we talking about special sauce cables, you know, those that you can buy to replace your manufacturers cable for more musicality? You think they may possibly make a difference?
not really though I have no experience with special sauce crap. I'm just saying to dismiss people's observances out of hand can come across as arrogant. Spending a little more on certain things to insure everything is operating as intended to me isn't being blind. Having an amp that may be struggling from a poorly manufactured cord then after a change operating to specs can be what some are hearing. No magic. and I've bought plenty of "certified" electrical stuff for commercial marine application that was DOA
 

righthookmike

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My current pair [a/d/s 400s, white metal enclosures] was $20, the attached powered sub about $50 at most. So . . .

Probably my best deal was the set of 4 Infinity Primus Towers and center for $79 at Amvets. Add three powered [used] subs for around $120 total, an Onkyo AV receiver for $50, an Oppo DVD/universal player for $30. On the cheap end of the scale, the Primus speakers are probably still pretty good. But it looks like they're no longer made, so you'd have to look for used.
love it, I'm looking pro gear I believe because its a back porch I just don't know shit about it. the best score I've seen is My buddy found a Marantz model 16 (not exactly sure but significant) and about 300 blues lp's by a dumpster in an alley in chicago... He was unwilling to give it to me even though he liked bose.. go figure
 

Robin L

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love it, I'm looking pro gear I believe because its a back porch I just don't know shit about it. the best score I've seen is My buddy found a Marantz model 16 and about 300 blues lp's by a dumpster in an alley in chicago... He was unwilling to give it to me even though he liked bose.. go figure
Amir recently reviewed JBL speakers of very high quality that appear to be designed with pro audio in mind. Very close to your asking price, just a tad over $3000.00:
JBL 708P Review (Professional Monitor) | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum
 

righthookmike

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Pharos

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I have spent weeks reading this thread and it was hard work for many reasons.

Science requires discipline, and a devotion to cause which seems rare today because of society’s shift towards egotism, opionation, self indulgence, public exposure, and self aggrandisement. But there are numerous contrasting examples of behaviour from previous and recent centuries, showing individuals whose devotion, in often solitary pursuit, illustrate shining pioneering selflessness.

I pursue objectivism, but do not deny my, or anyone else’s, subjective opinions; surely opinions can only be so when a factual validation cannot be established. Science is a tool, but it is limited by our methodology and knowledge, hence the need for the above which takes dedicated work, and which many people are too mentally lazy to do.

One aspect of discussion is that of the nature of the language structure itself, which is crucial; a valid argument can only be stated with the use of ‘watertight’, ‘fireproof’ language. Errors can be included in statements by the use of bad grammar, syntax, non sequiturs, specious arguments, circular arguments, and sophisms.

But it is unfair to expect non native speakers of English to have the same or even similar grasp of the language, as those to whom it is native. The British seem to dislike American English, preferring strict adhesion to a formal framework, but I admire the way Americans cut to the chase and whilst maybe a little casual, actually often penetrate very well into the core of issues.

I urge us all to be more humble in our statements, and more accepting of others’ differing views, and above all that we try to not become polarised to the point of discussion becoming alienated, intransigent, argumentative, (in the heat, not in the light sense), and ad hominem. These latter reactions may perhaps keeping our sense of self in tact, but they waste energy, and to no avail, much of all our self beliefs actually providing an illusory and insulative comfort zone. People often do not know themselves, and the quote previously from Carl Sagan is also very relevant.

The principles of science should be applied to not only the objects we are assessing, but also to our own belief systems; we all have preconceptions, derived form our vast human experience, and embedded through years of our developmental social psychology; which is both human, and nothing to be intrinsically ashamed of. Surely however we should perhaps feel shame at refusing to address our own psychological foibles and attempting to ruthlessly pursue intellectual honesty.

Error in thought can be spread widely and with great speed now, especially with the web, much of which is inaccurate, and it represents a massive threat to reasoned argument and sensible discussion.

However rather than gaining a sense of well being from adhesion to delusive comfort beliefs, an alternative is to accept that life is full of unknown and often intrusive, and maybe unpleasant events, and when perceiving these, we can deliberately avoid putting energy into, or contributing to, a self constructed comfort zone of illusion. Denying reality is actually hard work, and manifests when we are confronted with attacks on our views from outside; just watch the hackles rise in the attacked. The longer we adhere to delusions, the greater is the upheaval at removing them because with time and habit they become embedded and difficult to change. This is why therapy is recommended before the age of forty.

I think the Zen model of a piece of string about to be cut by a knife is relevant here; be taught and the knife cuts through, be limp and the knife finds difficulty.

I live now with sound which is often offensive, but occasionally very good, and I feel sure after nearly four years of scrutinising and casual audition, that the system is being more objective than anything I have previously had. Most of my listening is via FM, and for two reasons; it allows me to attend to other tasks, and I can avoid the internal ‘set-up’ which goes on in the mind when choosing material, this parallel with expectation bias. This produces many surprises and is not comfortable, as indeed is much other truth in the world. I think now, having a very good tuner and an improved aerial, I can hear differences in replayed recordings on a given FM station, and maybe even studio changes.
 

TheBatsEar

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not really though I have no experience with special sauce crap. I'm just saying to dismiss people's observances out of hand can come across as arrogant. Spending a little more on certain things to insure everything is operating as intended to me isn't being blind. Having an amp that may be struggling from a poorly manufactured cord then after a change operating to specs can be what some are hearing. No magic. and I've bought plenty of "certified" electrical stuff for commercial marine application that was DOA

If ones manufacturer has given one a powercable that is not spec'ed properly, one should call the manufacturer. We agree on this.

If, however, someone has a special sauce powercable that enhances "musicality", i call BS right away:
  1. Burden of proof is on that someones side.
  2. So far, nobody has delivered proof.
  3. It's rational to work under the assumption that no special sauce powercable ever will enhance "musicality".
  4. It's rational to reconsider when valid proof comes to light.
That might come around as arrogant, yes. But as they say in soldering school: zero flux given.;)
 

DonH56

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thank you. I'll try to audition a pair. active helps ease the pain of the cost

For outdoor use, Revel makes a nice line of Extreme Climate speakers that are well within your price range. I am using M80XC speakers as heights in my home theater and they are working quite well for me.

HTH - Don
 

alanaalison

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There are Ten Signs that you may be suffering from Audiophiles

  • Line-level interconnects are packed into a box, but you can only use two pairs at one time.
  • Your search for "The Perfect Copy" is wrapped up in multiple LP copies of the same record.
  • You may have used a green marker on your CDs at one point or another, and you can hear the difference.
  • You have adjusted VTA on your tonearm so many times, you have worn out the screws.
  • You are "into" swapping tubes.
  • The "High-End" passive parts that you upgraded with your "Upgraded" equipment.
  • You have a re-clocking device between your digital source and your DAC, and the DAC set you back $10,000.00
  • Having to move your heavy floorstanding speakers leaves a bunch of scratches on your floor.
  • You KNOW LPs sound better.
  • Then you get blocked from ASR after engaging in pointless arguments.

Please check these and make it fix - Hope it will helpful for you.
 

righthookmike

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For outdoor use, Revel makes a nice line of Extreme Climate speakers that are well within your price range. I amn
HTH - Don
I'll check those out as well. Small line arrays are starting to look pretty interesting I want the outdoor sytem to be one and done if possible so I actually feel something similar to a word I'm not quite familiar with. Patience??
 

Emlin

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I always buy new products based on subjective reviews, and expectation bias always confirms that I am right to do so. I have golden ears! After the placebo effect wears off, I buy newer new products, and expectation bias confirms that I am right yet again. So right that I now have an opinion. After the placebo effect has worn off, I still have the opinion, which I will now vigorously defend. I then buy new products and post wherever I can as an absolute authority. After the placebo effect wears off, I become even more entrenched in my opinions, and defensive - remember my golden ears? I buy more expensive stuff, as it's always better than the cheaper stuff and my golden ears tell me that it is true, and when the placebo...
 
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Pharos

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A good illustration, and I hope satirical, of how a locked up psychology can, and so often, function, and its futility.

The more I try to analyse many of my views, the more I realise that at some early stage in life I have 'bonded' with an often ill thought out theme or belief system which bears no scientific scrutiny.

Remember those early films in the 50s of the bad and often ugly guys dressed in black, and the good and often handsome guys in white, imprinted us? Oh what a naïve and wrong path to ill thought out concepts and opinions.
 

righthookmike

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I always buy new products based on subjective reviews, and expectation bias always confirms that I am right to do so. I have golden ears! After the placebo effect wears off, I buy newer new products, and expectation bias confirms that I am right yet again. So right that I now have an opinion. After the placebo effect has worn off, I still have the opinion, which I will now vigorously defend. I then buy new products and post wherever I can as an absolute authority. After the placebo effect wears off, I become even more entrenched in my opinions, and defensive - remember my golden ears? I buy more expensive stuff, as it's always better than the cheaper stuff and my golden ears tell me that it is true, and when the placebo...[/QU
A good illustration, and I hope satirical, of how a locked up psychology can, and so often, function, and its futility.

The more I try to analyse many of my views, the more I realise that at some early stage in life I have 'bonded' with an often ill thought out theme or belief system which bears no scientific scrutiny.

Remember those early films in the 50s of the bad and often ugly guys dressed in black, and the good and often handsome guys in white, imprinted us? Oh what a naïve and wrong path to ill thought out concepts and opinions.
Are there really that many people who are like that and is it worth spending time and energy worrying about them?
 

Pharos

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I think that errors of thought resulting in inaccurate belief systems, and hence farcical life decisions, is a much more prevalent phenomenon than perhaps we recognise. Just look at the work of Solomon Asch to see why mass illusion can, and does, persist.

Blake; "A man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still".

Dylan; "The naked truth is still taboo wherever it can be seen".
 
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