Looks like Drop might be 'dropping' a HD800

[JohnYang1997]

Haha, yeah. The HD800 came out in 2009, and I think HD800s in 2016, I just feel like somehow they could have gotten the price lower, though maybe that's not the point as it's their "flagship" headphone. 8xx for $800 would have been more like it. I also don't like that they're offering $200 in drop credit, vs just giving you an additional $200 off. Im with you John, sticking with the Ananda and EQ.


This graph was in the comments on the drop article, but it was posted by their chief products officer. You can see it's a head-fi graph, so I'm thinking Jude probably measured it for them.

Ananda will require much less eq though.

 

[mkawa]

my take is the sennheiser required a custom design to differentiate the oem product and not cannibalize their own market. also the high MAP on the OEM product all of which resulted in insane lead time and a huge amount of capital to start production. massdrop looks like they put a bunch of money up front already and are trying to kickstart production and start paying down development cost.

 

[maverickronin]

3rd try and they they still can't fix the treble peak or midrange suckout? Well at least good EQ options are becoming more common.

Still the king of soundstage and comfort though...

 

[Veri]

They posted a graph so we have a comparison against the HD800s at least.
View attachment 113348

Bit more mid suck-out, bit more treble presence. What the hell. I'd rather EQ an HD800/HD800s, what were they thinking .....

 

[WHO23]

They posted a graph so we have a comparison against the HD800s at least.
View attachment 113348

The bass is better and cleaner but in my opinion it still requires EQ. What happened to the 1kHz-4kHz region and particularly the 9.5kHz dip? According to Rtings, 5.9kHz-6kHz boost and 9.5kHz-10kHz dip are required to mimic speakers at a 30 degree angle.

Seems like the Drop offer doesn't include the balanced cable which is $300 separately. It's only been recently that Sennheiser HD 800S production delays because they couldn't get the 4.4mm jack plugs so they might be excluding it to prevent production backlogs.

 

[PuX]

so they call it HD8XX and it has a different driver etc.

can anyone comment on the measurements?

my opinion:
1 I don't like the dip at 1.5k
2 I don't trust them after what they did with HD58X - they announced one thing and released a completely different one. The original was based on HD660S/HD700 driver, it was clearly visible in the photos. By release time they changed quite a lot, it's much less impressive imo.

 

[RedCometZero]

Big yikes on that FR graph, They said the "smoothed" the mids, but it turns out the made the upper mids dip even dippier, which will accentuate the treble peak that the HD800 series already had. But THEY ALSO MADE THE TREBLE PEAK HIGHER AND MORE JAGGED.

They improved two problems of the HD800S, bass quantity, and bass distortion, but they seemingly made all of the weaknesses much worse at the same time! What the hell were they thinking?

 

[Ron Texas]

With the "official" price of an HD800S at $1400, paying $1100 for the Drop version doesn't excite me.

 

[solderdude]

I don't trust them after what they did with HD58X - they announced one thing and released a completely different one. The original was based on HD660S/HD700 driver

I know for a fact that this is not the case. I own both the prototype and commercial version and it is NOT the same driver as the HD660S nor the HD700.
The driver response of the original version was found too 'sharp' in the 5kHz range and lacking low bass. Drop coupled this info back to Sennheiser.
The same happened with HE350 (it has my mods in the production version).
Also with this headphone I have been involved a tiny bit. What you see measured is a proto and they are still working on it. There will be feedback from the proto and Drop as well as Sennheiser actually do something with this.
Yes, 2dB more subbass (30Hz) is not going to turn this into a Harman type headphone nor is this the goal.
Distortion in the lows is improved so expect better damping.
One can only do so much without changing the entire headphone (goal is to use HD800S tooling).

The HD800S by itself is an excellent headphone (with some EQ) and given the lower distortion and need for 2dB less subbass boost at 30Hz may make this driver even better than the already excellent HD800S.
And this at a lower price for US residents.

I wouldn't burn down the HD8XX without actually hearing it.

 

[edahl]

The only confusing thing to me is the recess at 1.5 khz, but I don't know enough to really evaluate this stuff. I hope to see comparisons to other headphones on the same rig, the Harman target, and some psychoacoustic discussions in the coming days.

EDIT: I among others asked about the 1.5 khz dip. I don't know enough to evaluate this claim, but it could be plausible enough. Like, I don't have any reason to believe Sennheiser would just screw up their flagship.

 

[solderdude]

I would say: set a similar EQ as the differences seen in the plot. Then switch the EQ in and out and you will know exactly how big the differences will be between a regular HD800S and this one on that particular test setup with that particular positioning.

 

[PuX]

I know for a fact that this is not the case. I own both the prototype and commercial version and it is NOT the same driver as the HD660S nor the HD700.

ok, fair enough, not the same, but isn't it still very different from the final product? they even had to add foam (to hide the drivers) because the final version physically looks nothing like the original they displayed.

hilariously enough, Sennheiser did not change the photos in their announcement apparently:
https://en-us.sennheiser.com/newsroom/announcing-the-sennheiser-x-massdrop-hd-58x-jubilee-222840

from these photos the driver shape is unclear, but it certainly does not look like the driver in the final product + no foam + headband was changed.

 

[edahl]

I would say: set a similar EQ as the differences seen in the plot. Then switch the EQ in and out and you will know exactly how big the differences will be between a regular HD800S and this one on that particular test setup with that particular positioning.

I'll actually do this when the HD 800S I ordered before knowing about this Drop arrives; I'll have 60 days to return it. Reviews in the coming couple months should hopefully make it easier to decide whether to keep the HD 800S or to get ready for a long, long wait.

 

[solderdude]

it still very different from the final product?

And that's a good thing too. The foam on the cups was not to hide the drivers. It was because they changed damping and the rear of the driver (same magnet, same mechanical frame) was now open and something had to be done to prevent dust getting into the driver without restricting airflow too much. It was not done to mask a change in driver that isn't visible. The foam simply was not directly over the driver magnet but now against the grille.

Pictures of both drivers are in my article (page 12) so you can see how different they are.

Ironically, the damping on the rear of the driver made it 'warmer' and closer to the HD650 while the original HD580 was flatter. The original driver was audible rolled off, more so than the original HD580. A bit more damping made it closer to the original (and HD660S) sound but with much better bass extension that the prototype driver.

 

[Tks]

An issue I imagine that would crop up really quick by getting the Drop version, is you can kiss warranty services goodbye. There were issues like this with their other releases (like the THX amp) to where they only offer replacements if it's within the return window, but because there was no leftover stock (there is some for DOA units) they asked you to wait until the next batch came in.

 

[Jimbob54]

I know for a fact that this is not the case. I own both the prototype and commercial version and it is NOT the same driver as the HD660S nor the HD700.
The driver response of the original version was found too 'sharp' in the 5kHz range and lacking low bass. Drop coupled this info back to Sennheiser.
The same happened with HE350 (it has my mods in the production version).
Also with this headphone I have been involved a tiny bit. What you see measured is a proto and they are still working on it. There will be feedback from the proto and Drop as well as Sennheiser actually do something with this.
Yes, 2dB more subbass (30Hz) is not going to turn this into a Harman type headphone nor is this the goal.
Distortion in the lows is improved so expect better damping.
One can only do so much without changing the entire headphone (goal is to use HD800S tooling).

The HD800S by itself is an excellent headphone (with some EQ) and given the lower distortion and need for 2dB less subbass boost at 30Hz may make this driver even better than the already excellent HD800S.
And this at a lower price for US residents.

I wouldn't burn down the HD8XX without actually hearing it.

Im guessing not really worth a look if one already owns the HD800 (no S)? At any price?

 

[Not Daijoubu]

"You want a dip there to avoid being too high energy."

But... what if I like shout. At least to my ears and my music selection, a bit of hotness in the upper mids is preferable.

 

[PuX]

Pictures of both drivers are in my article (page 12) so you can see how different they are.

so the original had foam but it was directly on the driver, not on the cup? good to know.


in any case, my point is mainly about drop selling one thing first and then changing it (for better or worse) while the people who paid already wait.

 

[solderdude]

in any case, my point is mainly about drop selling one thing first and then changing it (for better or worse) while the people who paid already wait.

A valid point. The measured HD8XX is just a proto. It will be evaluated and possibly revised. As long as the final product (they have about half a year to further improve) is even better I don't mind. Better is a relative term though. What's better to some may be worse to others.
Given the effort Sennheiser and Drop are taking I hope for an even more improved HD800S. Those that don't like the HD800S are not magically going to like the HD8XX unless it changes a lot. I am of the opinion that some slight changes to HD800S are welcome.

 

[solderdude]

Im guessing not really worth a look if one already owns the HD800 (no S)? At any price?

Not if you are going to EQ both anyway. It could be interesting for US residents that want to buy an HD800S near the end of 2021 and don't own the HD800(S) yet but are thinking about it or saving up for one.