Can speakers be too big for a room?

[Old_School_Brad]

That means you'd get the same "room excitement" problem due to deep bass if you're going the bookshelf + subwoofer route, right? No matter what, if you want deep bass, you're going to get more acoustic problems than with systems that don't extend deep in the lows?

Generally, yes.
However, a subwoofer has the advantage of being repositioned within the room for optimal performance, whereas large main speakers are typically fixed in place.

 

[JW001]

For instance, let's say we have a 20 m² (so 65 foot)

More like 200 sq ft

 

[Purité Audio]

You remove the room gain, the cause of ‘boomy’ bass with EQ, which is available in playback software, dacs and streamers and even some modern loudspeakers.
Keith

 

[JustAnAudioLover]

You remove the room gain, the cause of ‘boomy’ bass with EQ, which is available in playback software, dacs and streamers and even some modern loudspeakers.
Keith

Oh you're speaking of room correction? Like REW or Audyssey MultEQ / Dirac Live / ART ?

 

[Purité Audio]

You would use REW to acoustically measure your room to determine the issues, REW also creates the parameters for the filters and then you implement in the playback software Roon for example or in the dac/streamer Eversolo for example or even built in to some contemporary active loudspeakers.
Keith

 

[MattHooper]

I have a 15’ x 13’ room (though with a large room opening to a hall). I’ve had speakers of all different sizes in there, tons of floorstanding speakers, including some that went strong down to 25 Hz, and they have all sounded terrific.

I’ve also had plenty of stand mounted speakers, but I always go back to floorstanding speakers in my room because they provide the scale of sound and ease in terms of dynamics and power that I can’t get from the stand mounted.

 

[JustAnAudioLover]

You would use REW to acoustically measure your room to determine the issues, REW also creates the parameters for the filters and then you implement in the playback software Roon for example or in the dac/streamer Eversolo for example or even built in to some contemporary active loudspeakers.
Keith

In my case I use a Denon AVR, so I can only use the builtin Audyssey calibration. But a lot of the options are left to the user.

I currently have Monitor Audio Bronze 200 floorstanding speakers. These are small towers. I set the crossover to 80 Hz, the LFP for LFE setting on my AVR is set to 100 Hz and the subwoofer's crossover itself is set to 60 Hz. Would that make sense to you?

(I'm asking because I see conflicting informations on various forums)

 

[Old_School_Brad]

In my case I use a Denon AVR, so I can only use the builtin Audyssey calibration. But a lot of the options are left to the user.

I currently have Monitor Audio Bronze 200 floorstanding speakers. These are small towers. I set the crossover to 80 Hz, the LFP for LFE setting on my AVR is set to 100 Hz and the subwoofer's crossover itself is set to 60 Hz. Would that make sense to you?

(I'm asking because I see conflicting informations on various forums)

I would set the speakers' crossover at 80 Hz, keep the AVR’s crossover to the subwoofer at 100 Hz, and set the subwoofer’s own crossover as high as possible. Then, I’d run the Audyssey calibration with these settings. You're losing some content with the current settings, as the subwoofer's crossover is set lower than the main speakers' crossover.

In my experience, allowing the subwoofer’s crossover to overlap with the speakers' crossover helps during the room correction process.

 

[terryforsythe]

What do you mean? From what I understand, deep bass = room mode excitement problems. How would you solve that with EQ without removing the bass?

Apply room correction. You can use PEQs and time delay adjustments for that or use something like Dirac Live.

Also, room correction using multiple subwoofers is advantageous.

 

[Chris Bolkan]

I do not think it is possible for speakers to be too big for a room as long as the different frequency ranges different drivers produce are not so far apart that there become localization issues. One of my most memorable experiences was listening to a pair of well set up Klipsch Jubilees in a relatively small room. They sounded absolutely amazing and it wasn't just me. Everyone there was astounded at the soundstage and depth. It was like listening to near field monitors in a way. Room reflections were simply reduced to a non existent (relatively) level, and we were only hearing the speakers themselves.

 

[gnarly]

Yes, speakers can be too big for a room.

It takes a certain listening distance based on the size of the speaker baffle, or more precisely the distance between contributing drivers (talking conventional multi-ways),
before the phase of the various drivers settles together to form the acoustic far-field. (Not to be confused with studio speak far-field.)

Any measurements or listening positions within the acoustic near-field, where phase summations are still chaotic, will vary much more position by position, than for the same degree of position change in the acoustic far-field. Kinda like, all bets are off what you will get, in the acoustic near-field.

I'm pretty sure Genelec and other manufactures discuss this phenom on their sites.

edit: here's snip from Genelec's Monitor Setup Guide. The highlighted yellow is about phase settling distance.
A decent room of thumb is that listening distance should always be greater than 3-4X longest speaker dimension (again talking conventional multi-ways.)

Generally easy enough to do,...... until room is small and speakers are large.....

 

[DanielT]

Mostly related to listening distance. Multiple drivers need some distance to blend the wavefront.

Exactly. To take the extremes. Desktop speakers that you have at a short listening distance, you want the sound to come from a point source. Like for example this type of speaker:

On the other hand.I don't think anyone would think of placing a pair of these with a bunch of full-range drivers at a short listening distance in a small room:

At a long listening distance, in a large room, however, they can (if it's a good design, good drivers) be absolutely excellent.
Plus with EQ, which is basically always needed with line array speakers.
(the exception is that no EQ may be needed at, for example, large outdoor concerts, but that's another matter)

 

[gnarly]

On the other hand.I don't think anyone would think of placing a pair of these with a bunch of full-range drivers at a short listening distance in a small room:

Hi, We are definitely on the same page concerning listening distances of multiple driver speakers, when different driver sections are producing different passbands.
Like a low, mid, high type speaker.

The line array above though, which uses a single line of the small cones shown (and maybe a line of smaller tweeters, can't tell from pict....)
CAN be listened to closer than one would think, and with proper phase summation.
Line arrays work different, at least within the frequency range where they perform as true line arrays. It's one of their cool properties.
I've done it / experienced it, so not just talking theory

 

[izeek]

Let's be somewhat practical here, OK? Yes, I think there's a limit ...

View attachment 436617

maybe.

 

[MattHooper]

Yes, speakers can be too big for a room.

It takes a certain listening distance based on the size of the speaker baffle, or more precisely the distance between contributing drivers (talking conventional multi-ways),
before the phase of the various drivers settles together to form the acoustic far-field. (Not to be confused with studio speak far-field.)

Any measurements or listening positions within the acoustic near-field, where phase summations are still chaotic, will vary much more position by position, than for the same degree of position change in the acoustic far-field. Kinda like, all bets are off what you will get, in the acoustic near-field.

I'm pretty sure Genelec and other manufactures discuss this phenom on their sites.

edit: here's snip from Genelec's Monitor Setup Guide. The highlighted yellow is about phase settling distance.
A decent room of thumb is that listening distance should always be greater than 3-4X longest speaker dimension (again talking conventional multi-ways.)

Generally easy enough to do,...... until room is small and speakers are large.....

View attachment 436735

Yes, in that sense a speaker can be too big for a room if you can’t get the proper distance for the speaker to cohere.

One of the loudspeakers that I really liked, but ended up rejecting was one that I could not place closer than 8 feet, because it took an 8 foot distance in order for the sound to coherent properly.

Since I tend to listen from about 7 feet away, my Joseph Audio Speakers and my Thiel speakers work really well. The Thiels have coax mid/tweeter which helps.

 

[Chrispy]

In my case I use a Denon AVR, so I can only use the builtin Audyssey calibration. But a lot of the options are left to the user.

I currently have Monitor Audio Bronze 200 floorstanding speakers. These are small towers. I set the crossover to 80 Hz, the LFP for LFE setting on my AVR is set to 100 Hz and the subwoofer's crossover itself is set to 60 Hz. Would that make sense to you?

(I'm asking because I see conflicting informations on various forums)

Depending on model of Denon avr, you may also be able to use the $20 Editor app or OCA's Audyssey One on an Audyssey calibration for more capabilities.

The LPF of LFE isn't a crossover, merely a low pass filter for the LFE content (and normal setting is 120Hz) for content that has such (the .1 in multich audio).
When using a crossover in the avr you should not cascade it with the filter on the sub itself. Max out the sub's low pass filter or if it has an LFE input or switch that may bypass it anyways.

 

[gnarly]

Yes, in that sense a speaker can be too big for a room if you can’t get the proper distance for the speaker to cohere.

One of the loudspeakers that I really liked, but ended up rejecting was one that I could not place closer than 8 feet, because it took an 8 foot distance in order for the sound to coherent properly.

Since I tend to listen from about 7 feet away, my Joseph Audio Speakers and my Thiel speakers work really well. The Thiels have coax mid/tweeter which helps.

For sure. I have some 4ft tall 4-ways that can be a problem.

But then, the closer a speaker gets to point source, the bigger it can get be and still blend. I have 4 ft wide MEHs that can be listened to very close.
As Thomas A said (missed his post), it's about the blending distance needed for wavefront formation (which is simply a function of driver spacing)

 

[JustAnAudioLover]

Depending on model of Denon avr, you may also be able to use the $20 Editor app or OCA's Audyssey One on an Audyssey calibration for more capabilities.

The LFP of LFE isn't a crossover, merely a filter for the LFE content (and normal setting is 120Hz) for content that has such (the .1 in multich audio).
When using a crossover in the avr you should not cascade it with the filter on the sub itself. Max out the sub's low pass filter or if it has an LFE input or switch that may bypass it anyways.

I currently use the app, notably to remove the mid-range compensation.
I also tried A1 Evo but the sound is worse than what Audyssey provides unfortunately :/

 

[Cote Dazur]

Would these speakers be too big for the room?

No.

The only drawback of “bigger” speaker in a smaller room is the limitations in room placement, but if one can manage to place them properly in relation to the listening spot beside that they will be more cumbersome, then, no issue.

 

[Chrispy]

I currently use the app, notably to remove the mid-range compensation.
I also tried A1 Evo but the sound is worse than what Audyssey provides unfortunately :/

On the speakers I more have had the issue of speakers too small for the room and better off in smaller rooms. My largest speakers have been used in fairly large rooms so far, and would worry mostly about seating distance from a large speaker due reasons already mentioned by others.