Living room system based on Genelec or Neumann.

[Cecill]

Hi ASR Community,

I might soon be able to set up my hi-fi audio system back in the living room and have a few questions about my options. My speaker choice is limited to Genelecs and Neumanns, as I've previously owned the 8030C and KH150 models. I have two setups in mind:

1. Neumann KH150: On stands, paired with a Wiim Pro Plus for connecting to the TV and accessing the Plex server. Price: £2470
2. Genelec 8030C: Mounted on the wall on either side of the TV, with a Genelec F Two acting as a remote-controlled preamp and hub for connecting to the TV. I would access the Plex server through the TV app. Price: £2590

Which setup would you recommend, and are there any considerations I should keep in mind?

Thank you for your insights!

 

[LTig]

Neumann if you can control the Plex server without the need to switch on the TV.

 

[DSJR]

I wish I was able to tell you from personal experience, but I can't, sadly...

Am I right in saying the KH150s are larger than the 8030C? My old/ancient-school vibe here is that a larger main driver not working so hard in the low bass, is always better than a well throttled smaller driver trying its best yet distorting badly below 80Hz and as a result, affecting the mids as well. To heck with minor dispersion issues in the lower kHz region (runs for cover )

People here will suggest adding a sub I suspect and of course, any bass-mid (midwoofer) driver will benefit from being relieved of the bottom octaves. It's a bit of a 'faff' to get right though and two subs are almost always better than one if the room is tricky.

You say you've had both speakers, so hopefully that gives you good feelings on the way they 'drive' a room. Both speakers and their makers, have a great reputation around these parts, so I wish you good luck

 

[LTig]

Neumann goes deeper and louder.
Edit: @DSJR just beat me.

 

[Cecill]

Genelec F Two features an 8-inch woofer, and my idea for using it involves two main purposes:

1. Relieve the main speakers; handling frequencies above 85Hz to allow the main speakers to perform more efficiently and will less distortion.
2. Act as a preamp; with its analog and digital inputs, as well as remote control functionality, the F Two effectively serves as a preamp.

 

[Cecill]

Neumann if you can control the Plex server without the need to switch on the TV.

Good point.

 

[JustJones]

Across pond here in the US the 8050B is closer in price to the KH150 than the 8030C. Is there a reason you didn't consider pairing those with the Wiim?

 

[Cecill]

Across pond here in the US the 8050B is closer in price to the KH150 than the 8030C. Is there a reason you didn't consider pairing those with the Wiim?

The direct Genelec competitor to the Neumann KH150, in terms of price and DSP capabilities, is the Genelec 8340. However, I face a challenge with finding suitable stands for the Genelecs. The Genelec 8000-450 Triol Stand costs around £1200 for a pair. The 8000-400 is quite large, making smaller monitors like the 8340 look disproportionate. The 8000-409 stands, designed primarily for desktop setups, have a minimum height of 95cm, which isn't ideal for my living room. This is why I'm considering wall-mounting the smaller 8030s.
On the other hand, the KH150 can be placed on any hi-fi speaker stand due to its flat (as opposed to Genelec's curved) base.

 

[JustJones]

Genelecs are mounted on the isopod they can be placed on any stand the Neumann can. I've put 8351b on various speaker stands. Using the Genelec stand you remove the isopod and bolt to the back of the speaker. Good luck.

 

[Tom C]

The added value of a sub, plus preamp type control, tips the scale in favor of the Genelecs, imo.

 

[Cecill]

Genelecs are mounted on the isopod they can be placed on any stand the Neumann can. I've put 8351b on various speaker stands. Using the Genelec stand you remove the isopod and bolt to the back of the speaker. Good luck.

Yes, I'm aware of that. However, most speaker stand top plates are too large for the small footprint of the Genelec Isopod, making the setup functional but not necessarily aesthetically pleasing

 

[Cecill]

The added value of a sub, plus preamp type control, tips the scale in favor of the Genelecs, imo.

In this scenario, I could easily add a Wiim streamer if needed for accessing the Plex server (without the need to switch on the TV), as the Genelec F Two has a coaxial input.

 

[Waxx]

The Neumann is better in the sense that it goes lower and has lower distortion on that low than the 8030C, and as you don't have a subwoofer it may be needed. The Genelec has the advantage of the preamp is a part of the same brand as the speaker (what helps with integration) but that's it i think.

The 8030C (that i know well, i use it every week in a radiostudio) is a good speaker, but no match for the KH150, it's more a KH120 equivalent in the Genelec world. It's a good speaker in the Genelec line up, but the bass response is limited (+/- 10Hz higher than the KH150) and the distortion in the bass is much higher than the KH150. And speakers are by far the most important part of your hifi chain, the place where you can make the most difference. Both were reviewed here (but i guess you already saw those reviews). Neumann has solid wall mount brackets for the KH150 that all don't cost ridiculous much. The LH32 is one i used in a setup i build (home studio of a musician) and they costed about 160€ for 2.

I would repalce the Wiim with a MiniDSP SHD (if you need the streaming) or Flex, but that will drive up your budget. But if the Wiim cover all your needs, the Nuemann and Wiim may be what you want. Both MiniDSP's has remotes, and can add room correction with DIRAC in an more automated way. With the Wiim you're way more limited in that. I myself use a MiniDSP Flex as dac/dsp/preamp and a Intel NUC with JRiver as streamer (but that is way more complex and expensive). The SHD can combine both functions of the Flex and the NUC.

 

[Tom C]

The comparison is not KH150 vs Genelec 8030C alone. The comparison is KH150 vs. Genelec 8030C PLUS subwoofer Genelec F Two.

 

[Cecill]

Indeed, the comparison is between the Genelec 8030C with the F Two sub and preamp, and the Neumann KH150 with the Wiim Pro Plus. Here are a few observations about the two systems.

I appreciate the simplicity and potential for future expansion that both setups offer. As mentioned, if I find it inconvenient that the TV needs to be on to access Plex, I could add the Wiim Pro to the KH150. Additionally, I could add one or two subs to the Neumanns later on.

Why the 8030C? Visually, I prefer them in 'raw' as they match my TV unit, and I believe the size of the 8030's cabinet is the largest I can accommodate on the wall beside the TV. Larger cabinets would look out of place in an on-wall installation and I think that only larger Genelecs (with 8-inch woofers) seem to look good on traditional hi-fi speaker stands.

Moreover, I could add another sub to the Genelec setup, resulting in two monitors on the wall crossed over at 85Hz to two subs underneath. This could create an interesting and low-distortion stereo system. It’s worth mentioning that I don’t drive my speakers hard. I enjoy good low-end sound, but not necessarily loud.

There is also the cheaper Genelec 7050C sub, with the main difference being that the F Two has a remote-controlled preamp with inputs, justifying the £500 price difference. I also find the F Two more elegant, especially for a living room setup.

On their own, the KH150s significantly outperform the 8030s. The question is, how much better are the 8030Cs with the F Two?

 

[HQY]

No body mention KH310 plus dual KH750. I would think of them with 1st priority. 8” woofer handles the frequency from 80hz up to 650hz, and the dome mid driver can help significantly.

 

[Rednaxela]

Possibly because at £5,660 (Thomann) that combo is more than twice the price of the options listed in the opening post.

 

[Cecill]

Possibly because at £5,660 (Thomann) that combo is more than twice the price of the options listed in the opening post.

Yes, I am working within a budget, which is no more than the prices mentioned in the first post, up to a maximum of £2600.

 

[Cecill]

I am leaning towards the Neumann KH150. I paired them with the RME ADI-2 DAC fs earlier this year and absolutely loved the combination. I still have the RME, which I currently use as a DAC and headphone amp.
For my living room system, I planned to use the Wiim Pro Plus, skipping the RME altogether, and connect the Wiim's digital output directly to the Neumanns. However, the lack of a display on the Wiim poses a problem since there's no visual cue for the current volume level. This makes me worried that an accidental slider move in the app could cause the Neumanns to play at full volume.
Considering that the system will be used by other family members as well, this lack of a visual volume indicator is my concern.

 

[Cecill]

I'm in a bit of a conundrum. The Neumanns arrived today. I've unpacked them, set them up on stands, and they've been playing for the last three hours. For the past three months, I've been listening to music, movies, and podcasts exclusively on headphones. I've read a lot on ASR about how distance from monitors affects sound quality and the importance of room acoustics.

After these three months, I'm not as satisfied with the Neumanns as I was earlier this year when I first had them. I think this is largely due to the higher fidelity sound I've been experiencing through the headphones. The headphones also reach lower frequencies than the Neumanns, and everything sounds just right.

I'm finding the sound from my various headphones to be much more engaging and immersive. I think I might just get some cheaper speakers for TV and background music instead.