Living room system based on Genelec or Neumann.

[Miguelón]

What speakers are you using?

Genelecs G Three, F Two subwoofer.

 

[Miguelón]

I manually entered the values into the RME, and yes, it does have its own PEQ.
The second reading should be completely different, as specific frequencies were adjusted by -10dB, -7dB, -4dB, and -7 dB.
After these corrections, the bass was largely gone from the Neumanns.

Anyway, I went back to the previous settings.

Quite bizarre, because an alteration on the mic of the iphone would be also altered and sensitive to the change in sound, despite the bias of its calibration.

By default WiiM Room Correction has 10 dB max, maybe the spike was around 20 dB and on second measurement it suggested again around 10 dB.

Can you repeat measurements but this time go to settings in the icon of Room Correction and select the maximum 12 dB?

If it shows 11.8 or 12 dB filter that can be an explanation

Post edited: you can also make a -6 dB low shelving adjustment on the back of the Neumanns and see if the WiiM reflects that. I use to take a screenshot when it do measurements to calculate by the graphic a possible manual correction:

Something like this, is the measurement shown in the iphone app

 

[Cecill]

I will repeat the test tomorrow, but as far as I remember, the biggest spike was around +10 dB.

 

[Miguelón]

I will repeat the test tomorrow, but as far as I remember, the biggest spike was around +10 dB.

May WiiM cancels equalization of RME? Solution will be using the WiiM PEQ, not the RME ones.

 

[Cecill]

May WiiM cancels equalization of RME? Solution will be using the WiiM PEQ, not the RME ones.

It is technically not possible. The beauty of the RME’s EQ lies in its ability to allow you to input EQ values and then re-measure with the adjusted settings applied, since it is an independent device and Wiim cannot overwrite any of its settings. I’ve successfully done this in the past with other monitors, and it always worked. However, at that time, I was using a UMIK, which I no longer have.

 

[Miguelón]

It is technically not possible. The beauty of the RME’s EQ lies in its ability to allow you to input EQ values and then re-measure with the adjusted settings applied, since it is an independent device and Wiim cannot overwrite any of its settings. I’ve successfully done this in the past with other monitors, and it always worked. However, at that time, I was using a UMIK, which I no longer have.

It only makes sense an issue on the iphone mic, perhaps has an extra sensibility on this region but looks weird…

Please share your WiiM measurement curve by making a screenshot on your iphone, mine shows a tendency to hypersensitivity on 15 kHz as you can see on the picture (is unlikely to be produced by Genelecs because they show a typical roll-off in room response on this region)

10 dB is more or less I have on 70 Hz, you should have a living room longer than mine as you have it lower at 40 Hz, and your curve looks quite typical with another mode 2 times this frequency on 80 Hz.

Are you using a subwoofer? WiiM can apply corrections to the sub output only if selected in Room Correction settings, otherwise it let it unchanged. I didn’t think it until now…

 

[Cecill]

No, I don’t have a subwoofer. I just re-ran the test and ended up adjusting the bass on the back of the Neumanns all the way down to -6dB. On top of that, I applied -8dB at 40Hz and -5dB at 80Hz using the RME. Despite these adjustments, the WiiM/iPhone combination is still showing a +10dB peak at 40Hz and 80Hz.

This is before any adjustments

And here with the bass down

Perhaps this is a silly question, but am I actually using the iPhone to take the measurements, or is it the WiiM’s microphone that’s measuring the response?

 

[Miguelón]

No, I don’t have a subwoofer. I just re-ran the test and ended up adjusting the bass on the back of the Neumanns all the way down to -6dB. On top of that, I applied -8dB at 40Hz and -5dB at 80Hz using the RME. Despite these adjustments, the WiiM/iPhone combination is still showing a +10dB peak at 40Hz and 80Hz.

This is before any adjustments
View attachment 417443
View attachment 417445
And here with the bass down
View attachment 417446
View attachment 417447
Perhaps this is a silly question, but am I actually using the iPhone to take the measurements, or is it the WiiM’s microphone that’s measuring the response?

The iPhone ones, it does also the conversion AD.

It seems you have a poltergeist that lives in 40 Hz region

First graph showed a + 14 dB bump and latest a +8 dB or I’m wrong?

It seems that Neumann has lowed the low range (also that in 80 Hz) but the extra reduction made by the WiiM didn’t give anything…

 

[Cecill]

The iPhone ones, it does also the conversion AD.

It seems you have a poltergeist that lives in 40 Hz region

First graph showed a + 14 dB bump and latest a +8 dB or I’m wrong?

It seems that Neumann has lowed the low range (also that in 80 Hz) but the extra reduction made by the WiiM didn’t give anything…

Haha, I’ll pick up a second-hand UMIK after the New Year and do it properly. It doesn’t feel like I actually have that much excess bass, so it must be something to do with the phone. I’ll report back once I have a proper mic.

 

[Cecill]

I have a UMIK and took measurements from different positions on my sofa. Here are my results. On my RME DAC, I applied the following EQ settings:

• 40Hz: -12dB, Q2.0
• 79Hz: -9dB, Q3.0

I also make bass adjustments through the RME when needed, setting it at 40Hz, Q1.5. Additionally, I use the RME’s loudness feature to compensate for bass and treble loss at lower listening levels.

Green is before and blue after the EQ.

 

[Miguelón]

I have a UMIK and took measurements from different positions on my sofa. Here are my results. On my RME DAC, I applied the following EQ settings:

• 40Hz: -12dB, Q2.0
• 79Hz: -9dB, Q3.0

I also make bass adjustments through the RME when needed, setting it at 40Hz, Q1.5. Additionally, I use the RME’s loudness feature to compensate for bass and treble loss at lower listening levels.

View attachment 431741

Green is before and blue after the EQ.

I’m curious about how discrepancies in your main modes (not talking about minor issues up in the spectrum) are from Umik to your phone.

IIRC was around 14 dB at 40 Hz, because you had selected -6 dB LS at the monitor dip switch, and added -8 dB in another DSP?

Will be nice showing both WiiM/phone and WiiM/Umik graphs, to see at what point can differ the mics…

I was told that for more precision is better to use REW and an audio interface with the mic, this allows to calibrate all responses and add to the transfer function…

 

[Cecill]

My latest measurement was done using a UMIK and REW, while my previous measurement was done with an iPhone 15 Pro and WiiM. Both setups revealed room modes in the same frequency region.

The WiiM/iPhone combination showed a boost of approximately +14 dB at 40Hz and +7 dB at 80Hz, which closely aligns with the results from the UMIK/REW setup. Based on this, applying the recommended filters for these frequencies in RME should theoretically resolve the issue.

However, complications arose when I measured again using the WiiM/iPhone setup. After applying these filter values in RME, the adjustments were not reflected in the results, even though the settings had been applied.

In my opinion, the UMIK/REW setup is superior because even the smallest changes are reflected immediately. Additionally, since I'm making adjustments in the RME, I can directly measure the impact of the applied settings.

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[Miguelón]

My latest measurement was done using a UMIK and REW, while my previous measurement was done with an iPhone 15 Pro and WiiM. Both setups revealed room modes in the same frequency region.

The WiiM/iPhone combination showed a boost of approximately +14 dB at 40Hz and +7 dB at 80Hz, which closely aligns with the results from the UMIK/REW setup. Based on this, applying the recommended filters for these frequencies in RME should theoretically resolve the issue.

However, complications arose when I measured again using the WiiM/iPhone setup. After applying these filter values in RME, the adjustments were not reflected in the results, even though the settings had been applied.

In my opinion, the UMIK/REW setup is superior because even the smallest changes are reflected immediately. Additionally, since I'm making adjustments in the RME, I can directly measure the impact of the applied settings.

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I still don’t understand how can the changes applied on RME doesn’t reflect on the measurement…. This suggests immediately that the measurement system on the WiiM / iPhone is bypassing the settings on the DAC. Is the only possibility.

Nevertheless I’m happy to know that my iPhone is not inventing the main modes, but for more complex corrections is strongly probable that REW and Umik will be more accurate

 

[Cecill]

I still don’t understand how can the changes applied on RME doesn’t reflect on the measurement…. This suggests immediately that the measurement system on the WiiM / iPhone is bypassing the settings on the DAC. Is the only possibility.

Nevertheless I’m happy to know that my iPhone is not inventing the main modes, but for more complex corrections is strongly probable that REW and Umik will be more accurate

It's physically impossible for the WiiM/iPhone combo to bypass the settings on the DAC. The WiiM is connected to the RME via a coaxial cable, and the RME is connected to the Neumanns via XLR cables. WiiM cannot override the RME settings, just as it cannot override any settings adjusted on the back of the monitors.

I'll re-run the measurements and see what results I get this time.

 

[Miguelón]

It's physically impossible for the WiiM/iPhone combo to bypass the settings on the DAC. The WiiM is connected to the RME via a coaxial cable, and the RME is connected to the Neumanns via XLR cables. WiiM cannot override the RME settings, just as it cannot override any settings adjusted on the back of the monitors.

I'll re-run the measurements and see what results I get this time.

Let’s think, if you low the 40 Hz region by 10 dB for example on the RME it should translate into the measurement after the change… otherwise that means that the parameter yo’ve changed in the RME has no effect on the Neumanns…

There are 3 DSP on your setup, I think they are fighting each against others for the control of your system

 

[Cecill]

At the moment, all the controls on the back of the monitors are set to zero. When I reduce the 40Hz region by 10 dB on the RME, the change is immediately reflected in my measurements with the UMIK/REW.

This confirms that there’s no conflicting adjustment within my system. The strange behavior is coming from the WiiM/iPhone combo, which I plan to investigate further.

 

[Miguelón]

The strange behavior is coming from the WiiM/iPhone combo, which I plan to investigate further.

That was clear on your post, maybe an issue from the WiiM software or interaction with the phone mic. There’s not the first time I get strange measurements from the test (even with 3 averaged option enable), totally incompatible with my usual room response

 

[Miguelón]

At the moment, all the controls on the back of the monitors are set to zero. When I reduce the 40Hz region by 10 dB on the RME, the change is immediately reflected in my measurements with the UMIK/REW.

This confirms that there’s no conflicting adjustment within my system. The strange behavior is coming from the WiiM/iPhone combo, which I plan to investigate further.

I thought yesterday that perhaps loudness compensation EQ can be adding some extra dB on the low end, but this should be also measured in your computer with the mic...