Let's talk CD Players!

[Herbert]

@ restorer-John: Were you able to swap the diodes? I have several Toshiba-XR-Z70 that have almost the same laser (OPH-32),
several Sony BU-1 based player, a Nakamichi-OMS-5II, two early Denon DCD-1800 plus a Sony CDP-101.
All of them probably have the same diode, Sharp LT 022 MC.
Looks like Sharp was the only supplier at the dawn of the CD-age, also Plilips used this diode

With a friend, we try to find a way to swap the diodes working on the BU-1 and of course the grating is the biggest problem.
He is more technically skilled and tries to develop a tool to adjust the grating. Next problem is the diode itself, LT022MC sources are
not reliable, got 50, maybe 7 were working. So contemporary diodes have to be used, APC has to be altered, the beam spreads differently as well.
But it could be worth for two reasons: Mechanics are rugged and reliable. With a TI Chip, DIT 4096 / DIT4192, the internal Data of the Sony chipsets
(Data / Bitclock /L-R clock) can be convertetd to SPDIF. So if you are not satisfied with the sound, you can hook all the great DACS
from this site to some great Nak, Denon or Sony from the early eighties.

I did this with my Nakamichi OMS-5II player and after some years I even
ripped out the original D/A section and replaced it with a ES9018 based DAC from Twistedpear Audio.

After more than 30 years later, almost all BU-1 based player I own have levels between 0.7Vp-p to 1Vp-p (Level of eyepattern)
One way to squeeze more life out of the diode is to alter the feedback resistor values of the RF-Amp.
This can only be done in any player that uses Sony´s CX20109 RF-Amp and probably others as well.
Later the feedback resistors were integrated in the chip.
By altering the feedback resistor, you can safely raise the incoming signal from the photodiodes
by almost half without adding too much noise. As a result, the power for the laser diode can be lowered.

BTW, someone even gave me the Laser power meter Leader LPM-8000 for free - he said he did not service CD-Players for years...

 

[Julf]

I'm still amazed at the whole technology and mechanics of reading the optical disc!
It was like some kind of miracle to me back at it's introduction and still mostly is.

If you think CD is a miracle, have a look at DAT. Putting men on the Moon is trivial in comparison.

 

[Frank Dernie]

If you think CD is a miracle, have a look at DAT. Putting men on the Moon is trivial in comparison.

What about DCC

 

[Julf]

What about DCC

Close call.

 

[restorer-john]

@ restorer-John: Were you able to swap the diodes? I have several Toshiba-XR-Z70 that have almost the same laser (OPH-32),
several Sony BU-1 based player, a Nakamichi-OMS-5II, two early Denon DCD-1800 plus a Sony CDP-101.
All of them probably have the same diode, Sharp LT 022 MC.
Looks like Sharp was the only supplier at the dawn of the CD-age, also Plilips used this diode

With a friend, we try to find a way to swap the diodes working on the BU-1 and of course the grating is the biggest problem.
He is more technically skilled and tries to develop a tool to adjust the grating. Next problem is the diode itself, LT022MC sources are
not reliable, got 50, maybe 7 were working. So contemporary diodes have to be used, APC has to be altered, the beam spreads differently as well.
But it could be worth for two reasons: Mechanics are rugged and reliable. With a TI Chip, DIT 4096 / DIT4192, the internal Data of the Sony chipsets
(Data / Bitclock /L-R clock) can be convertetd to SPDIF. So if you are not satisfied with the sound, you can hook all the great DACS
from this site to some great Nak, Denon or Sony from the early eighties.

I did this with my Nakamichi OMS-5II player and after some years I even
ripped out the original D/A section and replaced it with a ES9018 based DAC from Twistedpear Audio.

After more than 30 years later, almost all BU-1 based player I own have levels between 0.7Vp-p to 1Vp-p (Level of eyepattern)
One way to squeeze more life out of the diode is to alter the feedback resistor values of the RF-Amp.
This can only be done in any player that uses Sony´s CX20109 RF-Amp and probably others as well.
Later the feedback resistors were integrated in the chip.
By altering the feedback resistor, you can safely raise the incoming signal from the photodiodes
by almost half without adding too much noise. As a result, the power for the laser diode can be lowered.

BTW, someone even gave me the Laser power meter Leader LPM-8000 for free - he said he did not service CD-Players for years...

I have successfully changed laser diodes in the past on first generation machines with the ability to adjust grating with factory instructions which gave specifics- it was hit and miss in the field. Those were the very early TAOHs (Olympus) heads. I have a small supply of LT022MC LDs. Bear in mind the laser blocks were originally ranked into two categories (B) and (C) by the sensitivity of the PIN photodiodes and the laser diode PD itself. Changes to the APC resistors covered those two rankings. So you cannot just drop in an LD without knowing which rank it would fit into. Trouble is, they are not marked- they would have tested them in batches and ranked them in-house I'd say.

Here, there are 5 ES machines, 3 CDP-X7esd and 2x CDP-338esd, all with no laser issues. One 338esd needs a spindle motor lubrication which requires a strip down and I've been putting it off. My collection of CDP-101s numbers 6, and 3 are working, three need focus/tracking amplifier rebuilds- a job for another day, but all their LDs are still good.

Nice to score the LPM-8000 for free!

 

[ripvw]

I own a Pioneer burner to convert my CDs to Apple Lossless files and then listen to them on iTunes:

https://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Computer/Computer+Drives/BDR-XU03

burned several hundred CDs in the last year or so - occasionally I get CDs from friends or purchase the odd one now and then because I can't find it on Tidal or Amazon HD - or because I don't like what they did to the original music. Also, I find pretty consistently that movie soundtracks which incorporate songs from multiple artists usually have one or more "missing" tracks. Sometimes I can find a HiRes file of the song available for download - like Adele's song from Skyfall, but if it's multiple songs missing it may simply be cheaper to buy the CD new or used.

Eventually all my CDs end up with relatives, friends or the local library.

Also own a Sony Blu-Ray but it doesn't get much use...

 

[Herbert]

I have successfully changed laser diodes in the past on first generation machines with the ability to adjust grating with factory instructions which gave specifics- it was hit and miss in the field. Those were the very early TAOHs (Olympus) heads.

Thanks for the answer! You are mentioning machines where the alignment of the diffraction grating was part of
the servicing process?

I was lucky with my CDP-101: It was stored in the warehous of my local dealer - for 29 years!
I even could even choose from 3 originally packed units
Talking about providing digital out to a CDP-101: Do you know where the system clock of 4.2336 mHz
is buried inside the CDP-101? In later players, this clock was generated directly by the Xtal,
but in the Sony CDP-101 it seems to be generated by PLL. A multiple of 4.2336 is needed to provide
digital out. With the TI transmitters you need 16.9344.
All the best,
Herbert

 

[Nicholas B]

First post!

About 15 years ago I ripped my entire CD collection to lossless audio files and ... never used those files. I still have those files, but still never use them.

If I listen to music its not as background music. So I don't mind pulling out the CD, looking through the notes and contemplating the music while listening. I like having the physical collection in front of me to choose from. If it was mostly pop music I could understand putting together different compilations from files, but for classical music or even jazz, this doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

Back in the early days I had a Sony CDP 338ESD (like @restorer-john). This was a real tank. Got it in 1990. The only thing I ever had to do to it was adjust the focus/tracking (can't remember exactly) and it was good for years more. I should have kept it. Later I just used DVD or Bluray players, but found these slow and inconvenient to use. Now I have a Marantz CD5005. With just a few glitches, it can play all the way through a horribly scratched disc (scratched from a dog attack) that the Bluray player couldn't play at all. I think the CD5005 sounds pretty good, too, but that could be confirmation bias . In any case, 16/44.1 is more than good enough - well recorded CDs can be incredible. I believe that the biggest improvements in sound quality can likely be had by focusing on recording techniques - and minimising adverse room interactions when using speakers.

I do have a streamer/internet/DAB+/FM radio on the way, but that's just supplementary to the CD collection - allowing me to sample more music in order to help decide what CDs to get next!

Cheers,
Nicholas

 

[Herbert]

Welcome!
I only rip for the purpose of listening on the road - with an IPhone 4 serving as "Walkman".
Or because the CD-Rs fail.
Though being a Mac User for about a quarter of a century, I never use Itune - it is simply too
intransparent. This starts already with the fact that the files are not accessible from the Desktop i.e.
for easy and quick backups. Compilations / Playlists are for the girl you want to meet -
of course on tape. Got my girl some time ago, so it is back listening to a CD in a row.
I guess this is part of a Musical education originating in listening to progressive rock, classical music and jazz.
So it is good old CD. At work, I am forced enough to watch monitors, I do not need this at home.
If I want compilations, I simply listen to LeRoy Downs and Henry Rollins at KCRW.

 

[orangejello]

I have successfully changed laser diodes in the past on first generation machines with the ability to adjust grating with factory instructions which gave specifics- it was hit and miss in the field. Those were the very early TAOHs (Olympus) heads. I have a small supply of LT022MC LDs. Bear in mind the laser blocks were originally ranked into two categories (B) and (C) by the sensitivity of the PIN photodiodes and the laser diode PD itself. Changes to the APC resistors covered those two rankings. So you cannot just drop in an LD without knowing which rank it would fit into. Trouble is, they are not marked- they would have tested them in batches and ranked them in-house I'd say.

Here, there are 5 ES machines, 3 CDP-X77esd and 2x CDP-338esd, all with no laser issues. One 338esd needs a spindle motor lubrication which requires a strip down and I've been putting it off. My collection of CDP-101s numbers 6, and 3 are working, three need focus/tracking amplifier rebuilds- a job for another day, but all their LDs are still good.

Nice to score the LPM-8000 for free!

Given that you know so much about the design and build quality of these early CD players, could I ask your opinion of the current top of the line universal Blu-ray players like the Pioneer LX500 (I just bought one). I use it as a transport and for playing the occasional DVD or Blu-ray disk. I run the digital audio output to my DAC, so I am not even using the internal AKM 4490. My main concerns are reliability and the ability to read discs. I had several DVDs that would not load with my cheapy universal player. This thing doesn't have any problems loading them - although loading Blu-ray disks takes a while.

The player looks and feel pretty substantial (22 lbs) and is mechanically very slick. But is there real quality in these players, or is it just lipstick on a pig?

 

[daftcombo]

In a little room, I use a Sony DVP S330, RCA out on a JDS Lab Atom used as pre-amp for a pair of JBL 305p mkII & as an amp for Magnat LZR 980 headphones.
Sounds great. Perhaps I should go out from the DVP in coaxial to a DAC, I don't know.

 

[MondoAudio]

... I bought that Sony in 1999, it was one of the first DVD players. Came bundled with a couple of DVDs. I hooked it up in parallel to my CDP1000 CD transport feeding into my DAC. I could not hear a difference. I used a Laserdisc Player with CD slot as transport too and could hear a difference - so that Sony seems to be a good CD transport. The build in DAC was however no match to my outboard DAC. It performed like most other onboard DACs that compared it too.

As I recall, there were a few threads around on various forums discussing updating/upgrading the capacitors in the power supply of the S7700's to improve the SQ. But it all sounded a bit too random/arbitrary to risk.

 

[Frank Dernie]

I believe that the biggest improvements in sound quality can likely be had by focusing on recording techniques - and minimising adverse room interactions when using speakers.

Completely agree. By miles the biggest influence on sound quality is the recording you are listening to, massively bigger difference between recordings than between equipment one listens on IME.

 

[JoachimStrobel]

As I recall, there were a few threads around on various forums discussing updating/upgrading the capacitors in the power supply of the S7700's to improve the SQ. But it all sounded a bit too random/arbitrary to risk.

Power Supply of my S7700: Coming back from the US, I carried my freshly bought S7700 into Germany. It was one of the first DVD players being around in Germany, region 1. It was 110V. I used a cheap Sine-wave filter to get from 220V to 120V. The power supply blew after 2 weeks. I hand carried the unit to the Sony Europe Centre in Amsterdam where they repaired the device. When I took it back, the repairman congratulated me for having such a unit in Europe and that the crew, eh, watched some movies on it (I brought the whole kit with the free DVD in, hoping to ease repairs, which it did...)
Back home I bought a proper transformer and changed the plug to German Schuko type. Two years later we moved. I left the S7700 in a box to be hooked up later. My young kids, being fascinated by the movies we played on the device, took the unit out of the box and plugged it into the 220v Socket. That was the end of my S7700.....

 

[LTig]

Power Supply of my S7700: Coming back from the US, I carried my freshly bought S7700 into Germany. It was one of the first DVD players being around in Germany, region 1. It was 110V. I used a cheap Sine-wave filter to get from 220V to 120V. The power supply blew after 2 weeks. I hand carried the unit to the Sony Europe Centre in Amsterdam where they repaired the device. When I took it back, the repairman congratulated me for having such a unit in Europe and that the crew, eh, watched some movies on it (I brought the whole kit with the free DVD in, hoping to ease repairs, which it did...)
Back home I bought a proper transformer and changed the plug to German Schuko type. Two years later we moved. I left the S7700 in a box to be hooked up later. My young kids, being fascinated by the movies we played on the device, took the unit out of the box and plugged it into the 220v Socket. That was the end of my S7700.....

Aua

 

[MondoAudio]

...Two years later we moved. I left the S7700 in a box to be hooked up later. My young kids, being fascinated by the movies we played on the device, took the unit out of the box and plugged it into the 220v Socket. That was the end of my S7700.....

Wow. I did not see that coming...

 

[Majestyk]

I'll always kick myself for selling my JVC XL-Z1050TN. A piece from the best days of the Japanese HiFi gear.
Built like a tank and heavy as one, transport was smooth as glass in open/close and dead silent when spinning.
A really beautiful piece that offered great sound too.
View attachment 34489

I bought one of these still sealed in a box back in 2011. It actually sounded worse than my JVC XL-V211, which was one of their lowest budget CD players.

IMO, it was just way too over-engineered with an extra layer of "K2" processing, which probably sucked.

EDIT... I sold this to a guy in Florida. Was it you?

 

[Sal1950]

I bought one of these still sealed in a box back in 2011. It actually sounded worse than my JVC XL-V211, which was one of their lowest budget CD players.

IMO, it was just way too over-engineered with an extra layer of "K2" processing, which probably sucked.

EDIT... I sold this to a guy in Florida. Was it you?

Nope,bought mine new in the 80s.
A real shame about your hearing.

 

[Majestyk]

Nope,bought mine new in the 80s.
A real shame about your hearing.

It was an over priced player with a proprietary DAC made by JVC. The XL-V211 had a better MN6471M DAC that was found in players like NAD and DUAL. If you want your 1050 back, just get the 211 (or the 311 which is the same but with a remote) and you'll get a better sound.

BTW, the guy I sold it to resold it on ebay a week later.

 

[Sal1950]

BTW, the guy I sold it to resold it on ebay a week later.

For a profit I imagine.