I have two "universal" players. One TOTL Yamaha BD player and a TOTL Sony UltraHD player. Neither gets used much. They Yammy once in a while to play an SACD or a movie. The Sony maybe once a year to play and UltraHD disk. I also have a TEAC CD only player in my two channel rack that is pretty much window dressing. If somebody shows up in my listening room with a CD and says" listen to this" it gets a run. All my digital music is ripped to a server. I don't own any CD's that are as trashed as the example in a previous post and if I ran across one it is unlikely to be so rare that I could just find a better copy.
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restorer-john
Grand Contributor
The AP cannot control the CD players and original technical test discs are getting very difficult to source in unmarked perfect condition.
You cannot simply burn your own test discs, the results are never what you would expect.
The Sony YEDs discs sometimes show up, but any damage whatsoever makes them useless for many of the tests. I have a small stash of test discs which I guard- some are still sealed for the inevitable time I damage one of my daily use discs.
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digicidal
Major Contributor
As someone that owns two of those (both of which still work great after ~12yrs in one case and ~25 in the other) that's scary. Until reading your post it never really registered with me that the whole assembly was necessarily hanging upside down! Which makes me feel really stupid because of the thousands of times I loaded the CDs that way.
I guess I've been very lucky considering. Granted I've never cleaned them one way or another and they've never had problems... but I've also moved them dozens of times - usually by chucking them on a back seat with a bunch of other gear and driving them to their new home.Considering they're becoming senior citizens in the electronics world, I'll have to be a little more gentle with them... or at least get the original one a walker with some tennis balls on the feet.
restorer-john
Grand Contributor
Thanks!Welcome to ASR.
digicidal
Major Contributor
My first post! Yes, I have a Pioneer PDR-05 and a Cambridge CXC transport (used with a Yulong Sabre DAC). I have a huge CD collection, and listen CDs almost every day for the last 30 years or so...
Welcome! Have you ever considered ripping them all? I found that prospect daunting at first, and my collection at the time was only around 400 or so. Still, I'm glad I did it now (Roon on tablet is a good replacement for booklets IMO). I do occasionally use my players with the originals however.
Thanks. I'm kind of old school (or lazy...)Just CD (about 3k titles) and vinyl (700).
The playing convenience factor is a huge improvement.
digicidal
Major Contributor
Agreed. It's funny, when I first tried it out I thought the majority of the metadata features were useless window-dressing... after a couple of days, I thought exactly the opposite. The ability to go from one album to others featuring the same artists, etc. (some I wasn't aware of, others long forgotten) is a great way to rediscover those hidden gems in the collection.The playing convenience factor is a huge improvement.
Also so handy for finding that "I know one of the 6 versions of that track always sounded better to me, but I don't remember which one..." which makes large discography artists (Steely Dan, Megadeth, and a few others in my case) easier to wade through (especially with the DR calc turned on). Same with comparing/enjoying live vs studio versions back-to-back.
The YEDS test discs were just manufactured to rigid standards especially for very tight mechanical and optical tolerances, that´s all.
I own a YEDS-18 and I never saw any difference to any good japanese pressing in real life when adjusting focus or E-F-balance.
It could be that Polydor pressings (the biggest factory in Europe) where generally a bit off, (I think the polycarbonate body is a tad thinner)
but my last adjustment was some time ago, I might be wrong here.
Also important:
On a CD the loss of data can be extremely high without any loss in quality because of parity bits.
I might be wrong on that but to my knowledge the loss would equal a scratch of 6mm (0.23622).
Maybe someone can give the exact percentage covered by parity bits in this thread?
When a player clicks with such a big scratch has another reason:
The servo looses track and the laser hits a neighboring track -not music track here, I mean the neighboring spiral-
so there is total data loss as there is no conjunction any more .
But those 6mm of data loss broken up in little tiny scratches would have no effect.
And the developers were so wise to juggle the data anyway, so that a big scratch resolves in many tiny data losses
that then can be repaired easily by parity bits.
This is also the main reason why High-End transports are simply nonsense.
And why Amir could even test a first generation CD-Player with a burned CD with generated test signals.
Hard to do in 1982, freeware today. Maybe some good CD-R are not so easy to hunt down any more.
Anyway I love those old players because of the mechanical built quality and longetivety.
My collection, all first hand bought them a long time ago, sometimes sacrificing a summer with an extra job.
What is funny: The latest item added to my collecten is the oldest. The Sony CDP-101 in the middle left was forgotten
in a dealers vault for 30 years, he still had three of them in 2014...
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I love CD-players and play CDs almost daily. I have 2-300 CDs and 200 LP as well. Many records are not available at streaming services, but most are. I like to watch sleeve info while listening, but it is getting difficult without a magnifying glass...
Now I have a Sony CDP- X707ES in my main set and a Yamaha CDX-993 in second. Both have been bought used and serviced. First one was a NAD 5420 bough as new in 1984. Then I had some Yamaha low end models, one is serving my son now. All of them sound purrfic!
https://www.mackern.de/index.php/2008/10/29/sony-cdp-x707es/
Now I have a Sony CDP- X707ES in my main set and a Yamaha CDX-993 in second. Both have been bought used and serviced. First one was a NAD 5420 bough as new in 1984. Then I had some Yamaha low end models, one is serving my son now. All of them sound purrfic!
https://www.mackern.de/index.php/2008/10/29/sony-cdp-x707es/
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That Nakamichi is drop dead beautiful !
It was an awful lot of work... The top is made of opaque, black glass, giving some extra space for ventilation, which is covered with perforated
sheet metal. I remember I experimented with a mixture of linseed oil and black paint to get an even surface on the sheet metal.
I even painted the sheet metal upside down so it could not catch dust.
But again the top is glass, not acrylic - Took some time to find a glazier who was
able to grind rounded edges. The back panel had to be carefully modified with heatsinks as well.
The reason:
I wanted the player that the boutique manufacturers promise but never built or for offer for obscene prices.
The built quality back in the eighties was great, so I had this already.
But of course the PCM56-based DAC section is outdated. (A friend still prefers his unmodified
OMS-5EII over a much "better" and younger Marantz CD-10)
Anyway: I ripped out the original DAC section of my Nak and replaced it with Twistedpear´s Buffalo II / ES9018 DAC
+ shunt regulated power supplies + single ended and balanced output stages.
The complete section is galvanically isolated from the Nakamichi´s ground and chassis, a unit within another unit.
This is why the DAC sits in it´s own enclosure inside the Nak. Of course transformers are used to isolate SPDIF.
Some cables are that thick because they are shielded with a second shielding that is only connected to the Nakamichi chassis.
Every cable carrying voltage was wrapped with silicone tubing as well.
Toroids had to be added as well, as many new secondary voltages were needed.
As the DAC only accepts SPDIF and I2s, I had to add a transmitter to convert the internal
signal of the Nakamichi to SPDIF. This Nak is Sony-based, the first Nakamichis were Philips-based.
Some chips from TI do the work of transmitting, DIT4096 or DIT4192.
But for them, a new clock had to be added as well, that feeds the transmitter with 16.9344MhZ and the Nakamichi with 8.4672MhZ
And because SPDIF + a complete DAC were there, an input selector was reasonable as well.
Though all inputs on the back look like RCA, one is optical.
DAC and Nakamichi can be switched on idependently.
The Power button on the front now functions as a selector for the inputs, the Nak itself + five SPDIF inputs...
BTW, the Sony CDP-101 and Toshiba XR-Z70 pictured above still wait for an SPDIF output.
Easy with the Toshiba as it seems to have the same internal data structure as Sony does, the Data, L-R Clock and Bitclock.
The Toshiba also has a clock oscillator (XTAL) that is a dividable of 16.9344, crucial for adding the DTI4096 providing SPDIF out
But interestingly, the CDP-101 misses an oscillator directly providing a dividable of 16.9344 through an Xtal, it must be generated by PLL...
Did not find the point to tap 4.2336 from yet...
sheet metal. I remember I experimented with a mixture of linseed oil and black paint to get an even surface on the sheet metal.
I even painted the sheet metal upside down so it could not catch dust.
But again the top is glass, not acrylic - Took some time to find a glazier who was
able to grind rounded edges. The back panel had to be carefully modified with heatsinks as well.
The reason:
I wanted the player that the boutique manufacturers promise but never built or for offer for obscene prices.
The built quality back in the eighties was great, so I had this already.
But of course the PCM56-based DAC section is outdated. (A friend still prefers his unmodified
OMS-5EII over a much "better" and younger Marantz CD-10)
Anyway: I ripped out the original DAC section of my Nak and replaced it with Twistedpear´s Buffalo II / ES9018 DAC
+ shunt regulated power supplies + single ended and balanced output stages.
The complete section is galvanically isolated from the Nakamichi´s ground and chassis, a unit within another unit.
This is why the DAC sits in it´s own enclosure inside the Nak. Of course transformers are used to isolate SPDIF.
Some cables are that thick because they are shielded with a second shielding that is only connected to the Nakamichi chassis.
Every cable carrying voltage was wrapped with silicone tubing as well.
Toroids had to be added as well, as many new secondary voltages were needed.
As the DAC only accepts SPDIF and I2s, I had to add a transmitter to convert the internal
signal of the Nakamichi to SPDIF. This Nak is Sony-based, the first Nakamichis were Philips-based.
Some chips from TI do the work of transmitting, DIT4096 or DIT4192.
But for them, a new clock had to be added as well, that feeds the transmitter with 16.9344MhZ and the Nakamichi with 8.4672MhZ
And because SPDIF + a complete DAC were there, an input selector was reasonable as well.
Though all inputs on the back look like RCA, one is optical.
DAC and Nakamichi can be switched on idependently.
The Power button on the front now functions as a selector for the inputs, the Nak itself + five SPDIF inputs...
BTW, the Sony CDP-101 and Toshiba XR-Z70 pictured above still wait for an SPDIF output.
Easy with the Toshiba as it seems to have the same internal data structure as Sony does, the Data, L-R Clock and Bitclock.
The Toshiba also has a clock oscillator (XTAL) that is a dividable of 16.9344, crucial for adding the DTI4096 providing SPDIF out
But interestingly, the CDP-101 misses an oscillator directly providing a dividable of 16.9344 through an Xtal, it must be generated by PLL...
Did not find the point to tap 4.2336 from yet...
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digicidal
Major Contributor
Wow! And I thought it looked sexy before the topless photos! Very impressive work! (Great looking backside as well).
Very impressive work! (Great looking backside as well). 
HiFiSoundFarts
Member
- Joined
- Jun 20, 2019
- Messages
- 66
- Likes
- 15
What about using an xbox one as a CD player?
digicidal
Major Contributor
Don't have one so I can't be sure. If it's anything like the PS2&3 or original Xbox... it's too loud for my tastes (the physical player is - not the noise level of the signal). To me, if you can hear the disc spinning at all it's not optimal. Add in the fact that there is way more unnecessary circuitry powered up around it (it's basically a PC after all)... and I'd opt for a dirt-cheap, used CDP instead.
I'm speechless! You did an incredible job, both with the technical upgrades and the cosmetics.
I tip my hat to you kind sir, you're one hell of a craftsman.
Thanks. Just wait until the next one is ready - A top loader that uses a Sony BU-1C mechanism and probably the next gen. Khadas Tone Board
if Amir measures it better without hump.
This time the enclosure is designed from ground up and milled from one piece of aluminium. This surprisingly gives the most
problems, as I do not find milling and anodizing companies that produce surfaces on the levels known by Samsung or Apple or this Nak.
It is absurd: 4 years of leisure time went into the following design and the negligence of a professional company of putting some extra five minutes into care and quality control during production might ruin my design. I tested a dozen companies with alumium samples, they all returned bad results, some of them work for High End companies.
I wrote a post about this in the DIY-Section of this forum:
Any good anodizers worldwide?
80% of the design was not the casing but what fits in. I.e the BU-1C transport had to be measured and "digitized" into CAD.
The basic idea goes much further:
To design a linear transport from ground up as patents have expired and quality CD-mechs
are not produced any more - there is only plastic garbage like the Sony KHM-313 and Sanyo SF-DV34 available, that´s it.
These short-lived transports no matter if you are Accuphase or Pro-Ject
(see my post 104 in this thread) or the piled boom-box next to the supermarket´s checkout.
But I did not find any investor yet as everyone jumps on the streaming wagon and as the idea
is not quick money (or selling garbage by high end vodoo gibberish) but to produce sustainable HiFi:
Machines that are completely repairable -down to the laser diode- and upgradeable. Don´t buy new,
just send in.
Don´t forget, there are still more than 40 billion Compact Discs around.
But I had to start somewhere, so I will use the BU-1 as a start.
With a friend we do work on replacing the diodes of this transport.
So rsurrecting the good old players from the early to mid eighties will be a side effect of this project
But if any millionaire (or billionaire from Seattle ;-) is reading this post, he / she is welcomed to send me a message...
Left the amplifier with integrated DAC, right the player that can be used as a DAC as well...
All aluminium and tinted or opaque glass.
The name "Velvet Hifi" comes from my first mod as a teenager, after a summer of delivering newspapers I was able to buy
a first gen. Marantz player. But the drawer was not completely centered an had a little play, so I glued velvet cloth on the sides.
The black stripes inside the open disc compartment are velvet indeed.
Again: Basically milled from one piece of aluminium. Only the knobs, heatsinks on the and bottom plate are extra.
At some places, the Aluminium is very thick, up to 17mm.
The basic Idea behind this material battle is that the heat is spreads evenly and by that temperature
sensitive transistors screwed to the chassis match better. Chips from milling can be recycled and reused for
forgering the same alloy again.
Milling tolerance will be around 1/50th/mm, the thickness of the protecting aluminium oxide layer
will be around 35µm, a standard for offshore gear and ships...
if Amir measures it better without hump.
This time the enclosure is designed from ground up and milled from one piece of aluminium. This surprisingly gives the most
problems, as I do not find milling and anodizing companies that produce surfaces on the levels known by Samsung or Apple or this Nak.
It is absurd: 4 years of leisure time went into the following design and the negligence of a professional company of putting some extra five minutes into care and quality control during production might ruin my design. I tested a dozen companies with alumium samples, they all returned bad results, some of them work for High End companies.
I wrote a post about this in the DIY-Section of this forum:
Any good anodizers worldwide?
80% of the design was not the casing but what fits in. I.e the BU-1C transport had to be measured and "digitized" into CAD.
The basic idea goes much further:
To design a linear transport from ground up as patents have expired and quality CD-mechs
are not produced any more - there is only plastic garbage like the Sony KHM-313 and Sanyo SF-DV34 available, that´s it.
These short-lived transports no matter if you are Accuphase or Pro-Ject
(see my post 104 in this thread) or the piled boom-box next to the supermarket´s checkout.
But I did not find any investor yet as everyone jumps on the streaming wagon and as the idea
is not quick money (or selling garbage by high end vodoo gibberish) but to produce sustainable HiFi:
Machines that are completely repairable -down to the laser diode- and upgradeable. Don´t buy new,
just send in.
Don´t forget, there are still more than 40 billion Compact Discs around.
But I had to start somewhere, so I will use the BU-1 as a start.
With a friend we do work on replacing the diodes of this transport.
So rsurrecting the good old players from the early to mid eighties will be a side effect of this project
But if any millionaire (or billionaire from Seattle ;-) is reading this post, he / she is welcomed to send me a message...
Left the amplifier with integrated DAC, right the player that can be used as a DAC as well...
All aluminium and tinted or opaque glass.
The name "Velvet Hifi" comes from my first mod as a teenager, after a summer of delivering newspapers I was able to buy
a first gen. Marantz player. But the drawer was not completely centered an had a little play, so I glued velvet cloth on the sides.
The black stripes inside the open disc compartment are velvet indeed.
Again: Basically milled from one piece of aluminium. Only the knobs, heatsinks on the and bottom plate are extra.
At some places, the Aluminium is very thick, up to 17mm.
The basic Idea behind this material battle is that the heat is spreads evenly and by that temperature
sensitive transistors screwed to the chassis match better. Chips from milling can be recycled and reused for
forgering the same alloy again.
Milling tolerance will be around 1/50th/mm, the thickness of the protecting aluminium oxide layer
will be around 35µm, a standard for offshore gear and ships...
Last edited:
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