From what we see here, they won't even get to the stated numbers in N alone. That's why I hold off judgment until we actually have measurements
What's the advertised value? I can't find anything at all.
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Lamenting the lack of good quality budget A/V Preamplifier/Processors
- Thread starter Xulonn
- Start date
What's the advertised value? I can't find anything at all.
Well, "advertised" in the sense that somebody from Nubert posted it on their forum. The value was a 86 SINAD.
That's honestly embarrassing. lol
Even the most expensive of chips are going around for peanuts to what they're offering for 900 euros.
Well, Denon seems to think that it's fine for the X3800h and probably X4800h as well, and that is a € 2600 device... At least of these we know SNR is > 105 dB.
At least the Denon has 108 dB S/N, 9 channels of 170W of amplification and decades of experience in the field.
Thanks for your thoughts. Nominal Output level from NuXinema isn't specified on the website, but in their product video they say it can generate over 4V of output voltage. So it seems to be a gross mismatch. Still didn't expect it to be that much audible hiss.
I tried to put a cheap "TC-780LC" line-level-booster in between NuXinema and amp to lower the voltage. Works, hiss is reduced on lower settings, but there's so much buzz and other noise with this chain - it's hard to tell anything.
I'd like to like the device, so before I return it, I'll be trying to get hold on another power amp with a higher value input sensitivity just to compare and see what it does to the hiss.
I was thinking more along the lines of something a lot simpler... and an attenuator rather than a booster (!)
Fmod Style Fixed Value Inline Attenuators
Harrison Labs Attenuators and Inline Attenuators
www.hlabs.com
(I have used these in the past and they work as advertised... - KISS principle... keep it simple)
They didn't (or we don't know that they did...) - the X3700 and its brethren came in two series :
the ones as initially launched in 2020 - using AKM chipsets - these were the ones on which the specs were based, and the initial models that were tested by various sites including ASR.
Then the AKM factory burnt down... and at the same time the world was hit with Covid, which wreaked havoc with logistics....
To keep production going, D&M had to convert their main DAC boards from AKM chipsets to the TI PCM chipsets - which are lower performance.
This process was less than transparent, and not managed all that well.
We have not seen the later PCM chipset based X3700's tested independently - so we honestly don't know what their performance is like
The X3800 and its brethren, were released to the market in late 2022... this means they were manufactured and shipped in mid 2022 to allow them to reach the retail channel in time for the official release. - AKM did not have their production of chips up and running in time for that, so D&M continued using the PCM chipsets in the new '800 series.
Is it worse in spec terms than the early '700's based on the AKM chipsets - yes it is
Is it worse in spec terms than the late '700's based on the PCM chipsets - we don't know for sure, but probably not (in fact, they may well use the exact same circuit boards for the DAC as the '700's... if it ain't broke... - but we won't know that for sure until we see service manuals and parts lists)
So the short answer is: no the X3800 is not lower performance than the (PCM version) X3700.. (with all relevant caveats as per above)
It is disappointing that D&M chose not to use the marginally more expensive higher performance chipsets that were/are available on the market...even alternate PCM chipsets! However, when considered in terms of the thresholds of audibility of many of the specifications - these should sound no different from even the best specced AKM chipset X3700's - the improvements/changes in decoding and RoomEQ, will be far far more audible, than the marginal difference in SINAD.
They didn’t have to. There are cheaper and better performing alternatives available.
I know that I wouldn't want to "boost" the signal. But the TC-780LC seems to be able to lower the voltage as well.
Thanks for the link. Looks like a good and much better solution. Albeit they are not super-cheap and I would need at least three of them (L/R/C). Since I got my Pro-Ject Amps used for a good price I might rather sell them and buy a better suiting amp. Should be getting it on monday. Will report the results here.
In the meantime I brought the noise down a good bit by putting a "Yamaha MG10XU" audio mixer in the chain. Volume controls for input and output. Hiss can still be heard across the room, but is at least on a "usable" level now. The residing hiss might as well originate from the mixer. So no final verdict until I get another amp.
Lots of different brands/models of basic attenuators, you may well find something cheaper locally... (these were a lot cheaper 10 years ago when I bought them!)
Replaced my Pro-Ject Amp Box DS2 Monos with a Audiophonics MPA-S250NC (RCA). Class-D, Hypex Ncore NC252MP. According to specs THD+N 0.0015%, SNR 121dB.
Input sensitivity: 1.66 V (was 550 mV on the Pro-Jects). Didn't want to go for even higher sensitivity so I could also drive it via some weaker AVR-pre-outs.
Whiile the NuXinema hiss was massive (room level) with the DS2, it is much lower now. On HDMI-Signals, I can hear the hiss up to 30 cm distance in my living room. That's acceptable for me. Via Bluetooth (and maybe optical) the hiss is louder. Audible up to 1 m distance on bluetooth.
Tested only wired stereo setup so far.
Included X-Room-Calibration for the fronts (10-160 Hz, automatic 10 band EQ) via Iphone App measurement clearly improved bass response in my room.
Nubert Remote App works well. So does the included IR remote control.
The biggest remaining problem is that I get connection problems / disconnects with my AppleTV when my Epson EH-TW7000 projector is connected on HDMI-Out but switched off. This worked on my Marantz AVR. On the NuXinema I can only do sound-only-airplay to AppleTV reliably when i turn the projector on or unplug its power cord.
There are a few other (minor) glitches, with the NuXinema. But so far it basically works for me. Since there are not many affordable surround-capable alternatives, I will most probably keep the device. More details to come...
Newman
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If one does want balanced pro-voltage output, are there any products that could convert the unbalanced, consumer-voltage from eg X4700H pre-outs, without appreciable damage to the SINAD?
One could use multiples of 2-channel converters, or a couple of 6/8-ch products. But only if they exist and are as affordable as their simple electronics would suggest.
Cheers
One could use multiples of 2-channel converters, or a couple of 6/8-ch products. But only if they exist and are as affordable as their simple electronics would suggest.
Cheers
I really doubt that buying a receiver with RCA pre-outs and something to convert the single to XLR could compare on price/performance. You probably lose quality in the conversion, and you certain lose money. Lots of < $500 receivers have pre-outs if you don't care about XLR and HDMI. I don't know what to use to covert, but I'd bet is at least $500.
I am probably going a slightly different direction. I am a big fan of Jon Marsh on another forum, and he recommended a Cambridge 651W which served me well. He likes their 851N preamp, as well as the more expensive Auralic VEGA. Either of these get me a really nice stereo setup with no HDMI at either $1000 or $2000 respectively.
That AVM70-8k gets me future proof HDMI and more channels than I will ever use, but I am not sure it is worth twice the price. I've been using stereo with no HDMI switching for the last 6 years.
That AVM70-8k gets me future proof HDMI and more channels than I will ever use, but I am not sure it is worth twice the price. I've been using stereo with no HDMI switching for the last 6 years.
Roland68
Major Contributor
I do this with the DRV134. There are both empty boards and assembled boards in the DIY area.
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