Lamenting the lack of good quality budget A/V Preamplifier/Processors

[MCH]

The Canton smart connect can be found for 500eur new. Does it decode whatever Dolby digital + that Netflix uses? If yes, that would be enough for many people I guess. Well at least for me if I had two pairs of speakers + centre

Hold on, this sounds like a perfect excuse to buy the kef R3 now that they are 1000 euros without having to sell the ls50 metas....

 

[voodooless]

The Canton smart connect can be found for 500eur new.

Is that the Generation 2 device, or the older one? I'm not even sure what the difference is though.

Does it decode whatever Dolby digital + that Netflix uses?

Yes, it does.

If yes, that would be enough for many people I guess. Well at least for me if I had two pairs of speakers + centre

For 5.1 this should be fine. Want to add height channels: then you're stuck with the brands' wireless solutions. For many, this will not be an issue. I find it just a tad too limiting.

 

[MCH]

Is that the Generation 2 device, or the older one? I'm not even sure what the difference is though.

Ups, v1. didn't know there are two versions.

CANTON Smart Connect 5.1

| Canton Smart Connect 5.1 Vorverstärker (schwarz)

hidden-audio.de

V2 650 eur in the same shop
Seems the difference is v2 works with apple airplay

 

[kadajawi]

I've heard not so nice things about the Canton though. And no Atmos... at this point, even if I don't want to use it, that seems a bit limiting. I can imagine hanging 2 of their lights from the ceiling for an Atmos setup... and maybe get 2 more of their speakers as rears. Not sure how well they'd match with my Focals, but my old Nubert speakers work just fine.

IF the output of the Nubert is as good as they say, then I'd say it's worth it. Good luck finding a pre-amp that does all the important formats and sounds good. Let alone at this price point. Good room correction would be appreciated, but I guess you can't have everything. At least there is some.

Now, given that the Nubert AmpX did poorly... But maybe they've learned?

 

[voodooless]

I've heard not so nice things about the Canton though.

Like what?

 

[kadajawi]

Like what?

Noisy, buggy (can't remember in what ways, and can't find where I've read that).

 

[abdo123]

But only with with the brands speakers? Or any WiSa speakers?

You can hook up other active speakers with a adapter:

nuConnect trX hier kaufen | Nubert

nuConnect trX jetzt bei Nubert entdecken! Hochwertig verarbeitet ✓ Lieferzeit 1-3 Werktage

www.nubert.de

I couldn’t care less.. 48 kHz is fine

These small boxes would be nice to connect to a pro-audio interface and have a PC do multichannel Dirac and crossover duties.

I don’t think you can use the adapter to expand the Nubert’s outputs, only transfer them.

 

[voodooless]

I don’t think you can use the adapter to expand the Nubert’s outputs, only transfer them.

Yeah, we figured that out. It's not compatible with the X-connect surround standard

 

[withoutsuit]

Noisy, buggy (can't remember in what ways, and can't find where I've read that).

One of the Developers had answered some questions, key take aways (translated by me, https://www.nubert-forum.de/nuforum/viewtopic.php?p=1137277#p1137277):

Other things, that are much better, than the Canton:

- According Nubert signal path at very high quality
(0.006%THD+N better then most highend pres)
- supports not only Dolby (like canton) but also DTS:X.

 

[voodooless]

- According Nubert signal path at very high quality
(0.006%THD+N better then most highend pres)

That’s just a 84 SINAD. Not very impressive.

 

[asraust]

That’s just a 84 SINAD. Not very impressive.

I don't know much about THD and SINAD.
They say 0.006%THD+N over the complete volume range. Is this the usual specification or is it usually measured at a certain output level?
(Still "not very impressive"?)

 

[peng]

I don't know much about THD and SINAD.
They say 0.006%THD+N over the complete volume range. Is this the usual specification or is it usually measured at a certain output level?
(Still "not very impressive"?)

It depends, 0.006%, or -84.4 dB THD+N would likely be not detectable by most people especially in their HT/Hifi room that typically has >20 dB noise level to begin with. As voodooless said, that is certainly not very impressive, relative to many high quality preamps, or in fact even AVRs such as Denon's (those with the AKM dac onboard).

However, the key info missing here is what those "Developers" meant by "over the complete volume range". The literal meaning is not very useful unless at we know the input voltage range as well as the output voltage range that you mentioned yourself. For example, if it covers input and output voltage from say 20 mV to 4 V then 84.4 dB SINAD, if that's the worst case/point, and greater than say 90 dB over most part of the range) would very good though still not impressive relative to many high quality preamps but would at least be comparable to those Denon AVRs measured on ASR.

 

[pseudoid]

I may have not done enough research but it seems like Rotel is no longer offering any new AVpre/pro hardware.
Rotel RSP-1576MkII can still be purchased as a multi-channel pre/pro but it seems like Rotel website shows only two Multi-Channel power amplifiers in their "Home Entertainment" pull-down page.
Michi C8 is also stereo as is the RC-1590MkII.

I'd worry but I've had great success with Rotel hardware that I currently use 24/7. I am not going to freak-out until they fail me.
But it seems like AVpre/pro is going to the same cemetery as the stick shift manual did... and ICE to follow!

 

[voodooless]

I don't know much about THD and SINAD.
They say 0.006%THD+N over the complete volume range. Is this the usual specification or is it usually measured at a certain output level?
(Still "not very impressive"?)

That would be an obvious lie. THD+N never stays the same over a volume range.

 

[asraust]

That would be an obvious lie. THD+N never stays the same over a volume range.

Could be meant as a worst case. I asked them on their forum. We'll see if they respond with more details.
Anyway: 84 SINAD should probably be good enough for me. I ordered the NuXinema. Will get mine next week.

 

[voodooless]

Could be meant as a worst case.

Why would they report a worst case? Nobody in the industry does that.

I asked them on their forum. We'll see if they respond with more details.

I wouldn’t hold my breath. Looks like people are more keen on ignoring an burring the subject. At least some know ASR exists.

Anyway: 84 SINAD should probably be good enough for me. I ordered the NuXinema. Will get mine next week.

Let us know what you think. I’m also not that worried and find the thing interesting enough to possibly replace my Marantz ARV which probably has a lower SINAD anyway. I’d like to see if I can do Dirac with a PC, an cheap pro-audio interface.

 

[dlaloum]

That would be an obvious lie. THD+N never stays the same over a volume range.

Usually quoted as " no more than "

 

[abdo123]

It depends, 0.006%, or -84.4 dB THD+N would likely be not detectable by most people especially in their HT/Hifi room that typically has >20 dB noise level to begin with. As voodooless said, that is certainly not very impressive, relative to many high quality preamps, or in fact even AVRs such as Denon's (those with the AKM dac onboard).

However, the key info missing here is what those "Developers" meant by "over the complete volume range". The literal meaning is not very useful unless at we know the input voltage range as well as the output voltage range that you mentioned yourself. For example, if it covers input and output voltage from say 20 mV to 4 V then 84.4 dB SINAD, if that's the worst case/point, and greater than say 90 dB over most part of the range) would very good though still not impressive relative to many high quality preamps but would at least be comparable to those Denon AVRs measured on ASR.

I had 95 dB SINAD and the hiss was really insane even on bookshelves.

 

[dlaloum]

I had 95 dB SINAD and the hiss was really insane even on bookshelves.

Often Hiss is a sign of gain mismatch - rather than lack of SINAD.

Also many components with relatively low SINAD (say 70db) have very high signal/noise.... over 100db

Hiss is noise - and a component with noise at -70db is going to be a problem, but a component with THD at -70db and noise at -105db could sound fantastic. - this latter profile accurately describes many of the most highly regarded amps of the 80's and 90's.
SOTA - no, not today, but great sounding - yeah, sure...

 

[abdo123]

Also many components with relatively low SINAD (say 70db) have very high signal/noise.... over 100db

I don't buy products anymore with the assumption that they perform better than advertised.