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KEF and their slopping response, neutral ?!

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dogmamann

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reading a few times and the claims are messy as... and inconsistent plus without proof, don't know what to say in this to make it a proper discussion and not in the fan/hater mode
I heard the speaker, I felt it shouty and sounded like a high quality megaphone. I listened it against several other relative key worse measuring speakers and they all sounded normal. As per KEF should be the easiest speaker to sound right in most rooms. To me, the experience was bad. I am only looking for the reason from the graphs why it sounded the way it sounded. May be the narrow dircetvity is making it sound honky and megaphony.
 

YSC

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I heard the speaker, I felt it shouty and sounded like a high quality megaphone. I listened it against several other relative key worse measuring speakers and they all sounded normal. As per KEF should be the easiest speaker to sound right in most rooms. To me, the experience was bad. I am only looking for the reason from the graphs why it sounded the way it sounded. May be the narrow dircetvity is making it sound honky and megaphony.
yea I can understand it can sound bad to you at that moment, no question on that side, but it can only be discussed further with say in room data or even what song did you listen to at that day, it could be the room, the music, defective speaker or even some extra EQ based on the stereoplay measurement, if say, no in room measurement and comparing in other room or setup, it can't be even remotely single out what is right or wrong, say for example, there are Behringer B2031A amirm measured being the speaker itself being broken.

Just saying if in room response is measured and available, you can at least see it's either you just don't like the speaker in the room or it have something broken in the setup, say a damaged woofer.
 

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Exactly. Please keep the fan/hater discussions in the ATC thread please. :lol:
well I ignored the fan debate there unless there are further data supporting, but with claiming "it's just right" or so, that's apple discussion
 
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dogmamann

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yea I can understand it can sound bad to you at that moment, no question on that side, but it can only be discussed further with say in room data or even what song did you listen to at that day, it could be the room, the music, defective speaker or even some extra EQ based on the stereoplay measurement, if say, no in room measurement and comparing in other room or setup, it can't be even remotely single out what is right or wrong, say for example, there are Behringer B2031A amirm measured being the speaker itself being broken.

Just saying if in room response is measured and available, you can at least see it's either you just don't like the speaker in the room or it have something broken in the setup, say a damaged woofer.
Thats correct, but general idea here is KEF is very easy to sound right in real rooms than other speaker. May be some reflections could have messed up my listening experience but then other speakers much cheaper were sounding perfectly alright where i demoed, signaling there is no real advantage of all this extra tech, every speaker even kef needs eq to sound right. If thats the case, its better off getting their R series instead of References!
 

Sokel

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Do we know the Stereoplay's measurement rig?
 

goat76

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well I ignored the fan debate there unless there are further data supporting, but with claiming "it's just right" or so, that's apple discussion

About the thing you are referring to from another thread...

It's pretty easy to be sure that the applied EQ adjustments don't sound right if everything you listen to for about 1-2 weeks sounds way too bright.
 

sigbergaudio

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Your experience with Kef doesn't seem to match anyone else's (certainly not mine), so I think the reasonable conclusion is that something was wrong with that setup somehow.

That coax doesn't display a wide soundstage as opposed to regular drivers is also not true, it's more like the opposite. It feels like you are reporting from an inverse universe.
 

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Thats correct, but general idea here is KEF is very easy to sound right in real rooms than other speaker. May be some reflections could have messed up my listening experience but then other speakers much cheaper were sounding perfectly alright where i demoed, signaling there is no real advantage of all this extra tech, every speaker even kef needs eq to sound right. If thats the case, its better off getting their R series instead of References!
first you need to know that the KEF you listened to isn't broken, then see if the music itself have some mixing issues and you can go further, say a broken KEF would sound worse than a $12 flee market one, or a music being bright itself would sound bright in a more transparent speaker...

About the thing you are referring to from another thread...

It's pretty easy to be sure that the applied EQ adjustments don't sound right if everything you listen to for about 1-2 weeks sounds way too bright.
not sure it is a good place to keep on that, I have said in that other thread it is what directivity error making EQ the speaker to anechoic flat sounding bad, and as in Amirm's review of any speaker when he discuss about directivitty index/error, multiple times he says that a good directivity is what needed to make EQ adjustment work or not, phrases like "good directivity, should respond well to EQ", which another speaker you've been using extensively, isn't known to have good directivity..
 

goat76

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not sure it is a good place to keep on that, I have said in that other thread it is what directivity error making EQ the speaker to anechoic flat sounding bad, and as in Amirm's review of any speaker when he discuss about directivitty index/error, multiple times he says that a good directivity is what needed to make EQ adjustment work or not, phrases like "good directivity, should respond well to EQ", which another speaker you've been using extensively, isn't known to have good directivity..

Well... If the sound that reaches my ears at the listening place sounds just right without adjusting the on-axis response to a perfect anechoic flat response, then I'm completely fine with that because my end goal is what can be heard at the listening position. I see no "self-purpose" in hunting completely perfect measurements if the end result of what is heard is the same anyway.

Yes, this is a discussion for another thread, end of the off topic.
 

bodhi

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Just another "I experience this and that thus it must be true, let's find out why everybody else including measurements are wrong"-thread, nothing to see here.
 
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dogmamann

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first you need to know that the KEF you listened to isn't broken, then see if the music itself have some mixing issues and you can go further, say a broken KEF would sound worse than a $12 flee market one, or a music being bright itself would sound bright in a more transparent speaker...


not sure it is a good place to keep on that, I have said in that other thread it is what directivity error making EQ the speaker to anechoic flat sounding bad, and as in Amirm's review of any speaker when he discuss about directivitty index/error, multiple times he says that a good directivity is what needed to make EQ adjustment work or not, phrases like "good directivity, should respond well to EQ", which another speaker you've been using extensively, isn't known to have good directivity..
I listened in a showroom, where it was near old stock reference 1, 5 and r11s. R11 didn’t had the honkiness . All old references sound similar with less And more bass. So not broken
 
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dogmamann

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Just another "I experience this and that thus it must be true, let's find out why everybody else including measurements are wrong"-thread, nothing to see here.
Measurements are good to build 90 percent of a a speaker. The final voicing is done by ear even at the Kef. You need to listen it in Person to know if you like that voicing. It may be simple few dbs up or down here and there but in real world it’s how that speaker is voiced. If you stand a 1 meter away from the speaker with less reflections reaching you you know how the speaker is voiced to some good extent. I shortlisted some flat speakers by graphs and directivity and went to listen them to see how they translate in real world. I was expecting Minute variations between brands but turned out hugely vastly different even with similar tones. Directivity differences should not be underestimated.
 

Sokel

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When it comes to highs my way is "Space Oddity".
It has the sweetest highs ever in a balanced rig but can be muffled,dull,irritating or even unlistenable depending the room and gear.

I think sometimes comes to wrong comparisons when you listen to various speakers randomly placed without controls.
 

bo_knows

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Hi bo_knows,
I like how effortless the ref3 sound. I know how they sound because a friend have these

And yes my situation really needs EQ :facepalm::cool:

Is that a KF92?:cool:
Yes, and the center channel is KEF reference 2 Meta. :cool:
Interestingly, the Meta color scheme is not a perfect match to the old reference series.
The Meta uni-q copper color is a few shades lighter.
 

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YSC

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Well... If the sound that reaches my ears at the listening place sounds just right without adjusting the on-axis response to a perfect anechoic flat response, then I'm completely fine with that because my end goal is what can be heard at the listening position. I see no "self-purpose" in hunting completely perfect measurements if the end result of what is heard is the same anyway.

Yes, this is a discussion for another thread, end of the off topic.
Well who said that you need to find completely perfect measurements... it seems only you suggest so, what in that technical discussion is why in your situiation with your speaker sound better with non flat on axis than flat on axis and yet still, anechoically flat speakers with good directivity is mostly preferred in various research and agreed by a lot of ppl (if not most) herein ASR:facepalm: and agree that even in the other thread this should be end of topic, if it goes into self satisifaction, one is perfectly fine even if he thinks $1 flee market earphone sounds best, not to say about "non technically perfect speakers"

I listened in a showroom, where it was near old stock reference 1, 5 and r11s. R11 didn’t had the honkiness . All old references sound similar with less And more bass. So not broken
End of discussion then, you don't hate all KEF sound in that room, it can't be put into same exact location and if bass isn't your issue and you don't have that harsh sound to you in R11, either some weird cancellation in that showroom causing that or that showroom have some settings making the other speaker sounded better.. they are all more similar than different in sound signature, if one of it sounded good and other sounded bad to you, it likely is the setup, even if you dislike all KEF, it only means in that setup, you don't like KEF sound, nothing more can be told, you might even like them more in your room than in showroom, without that in room measurement nothing can be said, more room friendly doesn't mean all kind of music in all room or even in all chain of gear should sound better to any person.
 

goat76

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Well who said that you need to find completely perfect measurements... it seems only you suggest so, what in that technical discussion is why in your situiation with your speaker sound better with non flat on axis than flat on axis and yet still, anechoically flat speakers with good directivity is mostly preferred in various research and agreed by a lot of ppl (if not most) herein ASR:facepalm: and agree that even in the other thread this should be end of topic, if it goes into self satisifaction, one is perfectly fine even if he thinks $1 flee market earphone sounds best, not to say about "non technically perfect speakers"

You have a lot of opinions for a guy with his first miniature computer speaker setup, but that is also off-topic. :)
 

thewas

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You have a lot of opinions for a guy with his first miniature computer speaker setup, but that is also off-topic. :)
Many audiophiles with $$$$$$ systems have a lower understanding of the topic than some people with a low budget system which is though chosen and setup with high knowledge (and often also lower sound quality). Also you just have a pair of passive ATC models of their entry series, which is absolutely fine but could give you a hint before your write such posts.
 

fineMen

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Many audiophiles with $$$$$$ systems have a lower understanding of the topic than some people with a low budget system...
... because they care about more relevant things? Things where they get the money from to spend on one or another thingy. After purchasing a Reference 7 for its reputation next is a yacht with a subterrain garage for the Lear jet (including suplementary heli and trailing oil tanker) to visit the privately conquored island in the sothern Pacific. The 'Blade' would too much remind people of on-deck work, you know?

The orignal question is why KEF builds bad speakers, bad despite the excellent measurements which put everybodies darling to shame. With some nasty trick they come around with not using beryllium, the white paper says. How dare?! That's exactly how you define not misusing resource!

So, how could that vicious non-quality be hidden with tilting down the hights? Now that stereoplay as an internationally respected publication on the topic of true-to-life replication is the witness for an - obviously, reportedly, failed attempt to cover up the flaw(s), what is the flaw, actually?

Not revealed by measurements, desperately tried to be closed in by manipulations, but brought to light by a passing-by experience. The preferrence score again to be praised.
 
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