KEF and their slopping response, neutral ?!

[Purité Audio]

They won’t have when placed in an actual room, if you feel you need more treble just EQ.
Keith

 

[Sokel]

They won’t have when placed in an actual room, if you feel you need more treble just EQ.
Keith

I thought that in an actual room and some distance roll-off should be higher and more declined not lower,at least that's what all in-room response measurements show.

 

[Purité Audio]

H/F is always absorbed by furniture and the air itself at least in traditionally furnished rooms,
I think we are saying the same thing.
Keith

 

[Sokel]

H/F is always absorbed by furniture and the air itself at least in traditionally furnished rooms,
Keith

So we say the same thing,in an actual room slope will be more declining.
Ok.

 

[dogmamann]

H/F is always absorbed by furniture and the air itself at least in traditionally furnished rooms,
I think we are saying the same thing.
Keith

Then in this case it would be even more sloping than flat on axis speakers.

 

[Purité Audio]

Yes absolutely, studio guys eq to a more or less ‘flat’ horizontal target but that is for specific purpose, most domestics listeners ,me included prefer the more bass/less treble slightly downward slope.
Best,
Keith

 

[Purité Audio]

Then in this case it would be even more sloping than flat on axis speakers.

Yes but the degree of target curve is your personal preference.
Keith

 

[jackocleebrown]

That’s my feeling. You are free to believe what you want to believe.

With the greatest respect to Stereoplay, it's worth looking at some other published measurements too

 

[dogmamann]

With the greatest respect to Stereoplay, it's worth looking at some other published measurements too

View attachment 281985

So that roll off is not present in real, which is what I wanted to hear. Thanks.

 

[Ricardojoa]

If you look at erin measurements for the reference 1, there is no such sloping. The one you are showing looks like predicted in room response which is on axis vertically.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

To be honest, I didn’t feel there was a roll off of 6db. The details were all there but bit muted. But there was some megaphone effect on the Kef which I did not understand what part was making it sound like that. To me, reference 3 sounded Like the highest quality hyper detailed megaphone one can buy, paired with some high quality subs.

I would think that the Klippel measurements, from Amir and Erin are more accurate and not the Stereoplay source you quoted?

Erin R5

Kef R5 Floorstanding Speaker Review

Kef R5 Floorstanding Speaker Review

www.erinsaudiocorner.com

Erin Reference 1

Kef Reference 1 Meta Bookshelf Speaker Review

Kef Reference 1 Meta Review

www.erinsaudiocorner.com

Amir R3

KEF R3 Speaker Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the KEF R3 stand-mount (bookshelf) speaker. It is on kind loan from a member who sent a pair to me at great cost (they come two in a box). The R3 costs US $1,999 for a pair. The R3 is an example of superb industrial design by KEF: It oozes...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Nuyes (not „full“ Klippel)

KEF R3 meta Measurements

Hi, I measured the KEF R3 meta loudspeakers this time. These speakers have just been released, but I was able to get a pre-order sample (a pair) from an audiophile in Korea. Impedance Frequency response I measure HF responses using a 5ms window gating. Therefore, the...

www.audiosciencereview.com

No 6dB roll off.


I think you should get your ducks in a row (facts right) first before making a claim, that something is flawed.

And let’s separate facts from personal preference.

 

[raindance]

Brightness that causes listener fatigue isn't in the high treble. It's in the 2-5 kHz range, typically close to the crossover point. High treble behavior defines extension, not brightness.

This is, of course, my opinion...

 

[YSC]

FWIW it seems like it’s measurement error and some others measurement don’t seem to have the roll off, and despite that I do believe your feel of harshness comes from some other things, maybe in room response or trying to eq them as on axis flat in room/ based on wrong measurement so in essentially making it upward tilting by 6db..

And somehow I have a feel it’s highly unlikely it’s the >10khz is main culprit, most ppl past their 40s don’t hear a lot above that anyway. It would be better if you have in room measurements to show that as an issue. I remember a member insist his pair of R3 is hopeless whil in his room and placement it’s room mode muting most stuffs below 100hz or so making everything sounds way too thin

 

[dogmamann]

I would think that the Klippel measurements, from Amir and Erin are more accurate and not the Stereoplay source you quoted?

Erin R5

Kef R5 Floorstanding Speaker Review

Kef R5 Floorstanding Speaker Review

www.erinsaudiocorner.com

Erin Reference 1

Kef Reference 1 Meta Bookshelf Speaker Review

Kef Reference 1 Meta Review

www.erinsaudiocorner.com

Amir R3

KEF R3 Speaker Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the KEF R3 stand-mount (bookshelf) speaker. It is on kind loan from a member who sent a pair to me at great cost (they come two in a box). The R3 costs US $1,999 for a pair. The R3 is an example of superb industrial design by KEF: It oozes...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Nuyes (not „full“ Klippel)

KEF R3 meta Measurements

Hi, I measured the KEF R3 meta loudspeakers this time. These speakers have just been released, but I was able to get a pre-order sample (a pair) from an audiophile in Korea. Impedance Frequency response I measure HF responses using a 5ms window gating. Therefore, the...

www.audiosciencereview.com

No 6dB roll off.


I think you should get your ducks in a row (facts right) first before making a claim, that something is flawed.

And let’s separate facts from personal preference.

I didn’t say I heard a roll off, but I meant the graphs has a 6 db roll off. So stereoplay has to get their ducks in the row than me.

 

[dogmamann]

Brightness that causes listener fatigue isn't in the high treble. It's in the 2-5 kHz range, typically close to the crossover point. High treble behavior defines extension, not brightness.

This is, of course, my opinion...

Its a slight something in the upper treble which was making it bit sharp. I listened to another speaker which has a poorer directivity in the same room but with more extended bass and treble response. It sounded more relaxing despite a directivity error in the 2-4khz region in the very same room.

 

[fineMen]

Its ideal to have a flat on axis response and a slopping off axis response of the same pattern. KEF‘s on axis is slopping, compared to other speakers. Yet when I tried listening to Reference (non meta version) it sounded very harsh, bright, despite the 6 db sinking in treble region. Now I am trying to undertand if Kef guys knew their tweeters are somehow too sharp and wanted people not to hear it, so they rolled off the on axis. Still some people call it neutral. that’s no way neutral with that roll off, normally we wont put a cloth over cymbals before we listen to them!. Is there a reason other than this to have a rolled off on axis response?

You didn't as far as I got it right, not clearly state which speaker type you auditioned under what circumstances. I reads more like theoretical musings originating in a short term experience at some random location?

Yes, it's true at least for the the old, outdated R-series that it sounds on one hand quite clear. This may be due to excellent engineering. But that very fact might misslead you to crank up the volume too far, because the otherwise usual colorations, the muddiness are not achieved. I assume you didn't control the sound pressure level?

Its a slight something in the upper treble which was making it bit sharp. I listened to another speaker which has a poorer directivity in the same room but with more extended bass and treble response. It sounded more relaxing despite a directivity error in the 2-4khz region in the very same room.

You're speculating. With actually arbitrary and unknown prerequisites for a subjective experience the gain of investigations is expected to remain less valuable.

 

[FrankW]

So stereoplay has to get their ducks in the row than me.

Ok, so now in thread title, put a strike line through "KEF" and insert "Stereoplay"

 

[fpitas]

Not to put too fine a point on it, but it's 2023. If I had to live with a commercial offering, I'd definitely EQ it how I pleased. The chances of them getting it just the way you like are very slim.

 

[dogmamann]

Not to put too fine a point on it, but it's 2023. If I had to live with a commercial offering, I'd definitely EQ it how I pleased. The chances of them getting it just the way you like are very slim.

EQs existed since 70s or even before. The crowd who never digested the idea of the EQ would never like the idea no matter what.

 

[fpitas]

EQs existed since 70s or even before. The crowd who never digested the idea of the EQ would never like the idea no matter what.

True, although they were bulky back then and generally "featured" fixed Q. These days you can EQ without doing more damage than you fix.