June 2024 - Need a good transparent sounding IEM - budget $60 max

[OK1]

For me, the MP145s with a little crossover and a pinch of reverb is just the sound of extremely good speakers. Just those and the Apple Dongle are enough to provide me with maybe the best listening experience of my life.

It is astonishing what China has been able to accomplish in the world of audio. I'm repeating myself, but when I was a teenager this experience was simply impossible to achieve. I had very expensive monitors and they sounded like crap compared to my MP145s.

Which crossover and reverb products, do you use?

 

[InfiniteJester]

Which crossover and reverb products, do you use?

I shared my configuration here:

Hidizs MP145 IEM Review

which competitors - letshuoer s12 ? ARTTI T10 (US$58 on AliEx sale)...well accessorized. NiceHCK F1 Pro (US$85 on AliEx sale)...nice selection of tips...very well accessorized. Both utilize 14.2mm planar. Both are a bullet style. Fitment for both should be very good. F1 Pro has the anodized...

www.audiosciencereview.com

It is from Foobar2000 for Android.

 

[OK1]

Ok after a few days, I think the journey continues. 1st it was getting the right dongle - solved -> Tempotec Sonata BHD - totally satisfied with this. Only thing I could have wished for is microphone input which it does not have. I'll aim to buy a CX 31993 or an ALC 5686 based DAC to cover that usage, for voice telephone conversations and meetings, to cover that omission.

Next it was headphone, and I'm ok with the CCA CRA.

Now, the enemy of good is better. Working with AutoEQ, I have created several corrections, with different targets. Using the Kr0mka measurement of the CCA CRA in Auto EQ, as representative of my own copy of the CCA CRA, I've corrected the frequency based on certain targets. See below. S600 is Sennheiser HD600, StaticV3 kindly comes from a member of this forum with same username. AEQ is the default Auto EQ target. Etymotic is the Etymotic Target. H2019 is Harman 2019. Reaverb is my convolution plugin in Reaper -a DAW, where the correction impulse response files are loaded, to achieve the correction.

So its getting deep.

This repeats an observation I had when using Morphit for headphone correction, I preferred the Sennheiser HD 600 as my ideal listening target., and in this current comparison, the Etymotic was 2nd best, and StaticV3 following closely.

On the CCA CRA, as thrilling as the non corrected headphone sounds, this and the Harman 2019 IEM target as well as the default target in Auto EQ, when compared to the HD 600 target, the former three sound too hyped in the bass and treble.

The moment I switched to the HD 600 target - and went back and forth, on this target, my ears seemed to relax, like sitting in a favorite armchair, it's a whole new world, and yet one more rabbit hole - these unlimited target opportunities.

Life was easier when we had none of this DSP power. With great power comes the need for great responsibility.

Not wishing to start another thread to discuss desirable targets, which targets should I be including in my research/customisation of headphone/IEM playback?

Which other headphone measurements, and measured by whom, would serve as candidates for critical listening?

How can I get/download the Crinacle 2023 revised target for IEM's, which has a flat low frequency end?

 

[InfiniteJester]

Ok after a few days, I think the journey continues. 1st it was getting the right dongle - solved -> Tempotec Sonata BHD - totally satisfied with this. Only thing I could have wished for is microphone input which it does not have. I'll aim to buy a CX 31993 or an ALC 5686 based DAC to cover that usage, for voice telephone conversations and meetings, to cover that omission.

Next it was headphone, and I'm ok with the CCA CRA.

Now, the enemy of good is better. Working with AutoEQ, I have created several corrections, with different targets. Using the Kr0mka measurement of the CCA CRA in Auto EQ, as representative of my own copy of the CCA CRA, I've corrected the frequency based on certain targets. See below. S600 is Sennheiser HD600, StaticV3 kindly comes from a member of this forum with same username. AEQ is the default Auto EQ target. Etymotic is the Etymotic Target. H2019 is Harman 2019. Reaverb is my convolution plugin in Reaper -a DAW, where the correction impulse response files are loaded, to achieve the correction.

View attachment 375719

So its getting deep.

This repeats an observation I had when using Morphit for headphone correction, I preferred the Sennheiser HD 600 as my ideal listening target., and in this current comparison, the Etymotic was 2nd best, and StaticV3 following closely.

On the CCA CRA, as thrilling as the non corrected headphone sounds, this and the Harman 2019 IEM target as well as the default target in Auto EQ, when compared to the HD 600 target, the former three sound too hyped in the bass and treble.

The moment I switched to the HD 600 target - and went back and forth, on this target, my ears seemed to relax, like sitting in a favorite armchair, it's a whole new world, and yet one more rabbit hole - these unlimited target opportunities.

Life was easier when we had none of this DSP power. With great power comes the need for great responsibility.

Not wishing to start another thread to discuss desirable targets, which targets should I be including in my research/customisation of headphone/IEM playback?

Are you telling me that you are EQuing your IEMs to this?

 

[OK1]

Are you telling me that you are EQuing your IEMs to this?

View attachment 375722

I've listed the targets I have used to date. Which "measurement" or target is this, in the Frequency Response graph, you posted?

 

[InfiniteJester]

I've listed the targets I have used to date. Which "measurement" or target is this, in the Frequency Response graph, you posted?

That is the HD600 according to AutoEQ.

 

[OK1]

That is the HD600 according to AutoEQ.

For general listening, i.e for pleasure, I tend to either not use any correction OR use one of these - Auto EQ default, Harmann 2019, or StaticV3.

The HD600 and the Etymotic targets, remind me of tools used in mixing studios a while ago, such as the Auratone/Mixcube and the Yamaha NS10 speakers, focussing on the mids predominantly. The HD600 and Etymotic based corrections, provide an alternative viewpoint similar to what one would expect from bass restricted speakers, with prominence devoted to vocals.Of course sounds brighter overall, but I find these useful. I'm thinking of some kind of hybrid tuning that is a mid point between something like the HD600 and the Harman 2019 IEM, in the bass region, slightly boosting the bass of the HD600 based tuning, for critical listening.

Guess the power we have today is, the tools are there, and in digital, unlike analog electronics where once upon a time people had to build real circuits to achieve similar things, or alter the physical structure of the headphones in some way, digital is non destructive - all one needs is information, tools, and a bit of time. If you do not like the result, within a few clicks, you can backtrack and try something else.

So the rabbit hole is narrowed down to 2 areas of potential improvement - 1. Improving the quality of transducer - especially picking headphones with low distortion. So I'm now searching for web sites and measurement databases which have distortion measured and published, so this can inform any future purchase decisions. AND 2. Experimenting with EQ to achieve Frequency response targets.

At this time, probably cos it's about the best I can afford, also considering sticking to single driver headphones, with obviously no crossovers to contend with, and should therefore be better candidates for EQ "tuning".

The ARTTI T10 is especially tempting. From reviews and also the cost. I have never heard a planar magnetic before. The HifiMan H400se is also quite tempting, as a complementary over ear headphone. The whole arena of listening to audio via transducers is interesting, the promise of quality at an affordable price - via IEM's and Over Ear headphones like the HifiMan H400se, is pretty exciting, especially when compared to how much it costs to treat a room acoustically, and but decent sounding modern speakers. The IEM's and Headphones are peacemakers - Zero disturbance to family, and neighbours.

 

[InfiniteJester]

For general listening, i.e for pleasure, I tend to either not use any correction OR use one of these - Auto EQ default, Harmann 2019, or StaticV3.

The HD600 and the Etymotic targets, remind me of tools used in mixing studios a while ago, such as the Auratone/Mixcube and the Yamaha NS10 speakers, focussing on the mids predominantly. The HD600 and Etymotic based corrections, provide an alternative viewpoint similar to what one would expect from bass restricted speakers, with prominence devoted to vocals.Of course sounds brighter overall, but I find these useful. I'm thinking of some kind of hybrid tuning that is a mid point between something like the HD600 and the Harman 2019 IEM, in the bass region, slightly boosting the bass of the HD600 based tuning, for critical listening.

Guess the power we have today is, the tools are there, and in digital, unlike analog electronics where once upon a time people had to build real circuits to achieve similar things, or alter the physical structure of the headphones in some way, digital is non destructive - all one needs is information, tools, and a bit of time. If you do not like the result, within a few clicks, you can backtrack and try something else.

So the rabbit hole is narrowed down to 2 areas of potential improvement - 1. Improving the quality of transducer - especially picking headphones with low distortion. So I'm now searching for web sites and measurement databases which have distortion measured and published, so this can inform any future purchase decisions. AND 2. Experimenting with EQ to achieve Frequency response targets.

At this time, probably cos it's about the best I can afford, also considering sticking to single driver headphones, with obviously no crossovers to contend with, and should therefore be better candidates for EQ "tuning".

The ARTTI T10 is especially tempting. From reviews and also the cost. I have never heard a planar magnetic before. The HifiMan H400se is also quite tempting, as a complementary over ear headphone. The whole arena of listening to audio via transducers is interesting, the promise of quality at an affordable price - via IEM's and Over Ear headphones like the HifiMan H400se, is pretty exciting, especially when compared to how much it costs to treat a room acoustically, and but decent sounding modern speakers. The IEM's and Headphones are peacemakers - Zero disturbance to family, and neighbours.

Agree with everything. I just found weird to tune an IEM to a headphone response. I have tuned my HE400se many times to other headphones responses for fun. Particularly, I tried tuning them to Dan Clark headphones to experience what that bass bump is really doing. I have also tried the Empyrean and the Susvara FRs. But nothing beats Harman OE 2018, in my opinion.

Pretty good headphones, the HE400se, completely worth what little they cost, in my experience.

 

[OK1]

Agree with everything. I just found weird to tune an IEM to a headphone response. I have tuned my HE400se many times to other headphones responses for fun. Particularly, I tried tuning them to Dan Clark headphones to experience what that bass bump is really doing. I have also tried the Empyrean and the Susvara FRs. But nothing beats Harman OE 2018, in my opinion.

Pretty good headphones, the HE400se, completely worth what little they cost, in my experience.

Now this is the kind of actionable information, that I needed. Harman OE 2018, and HE400se recommendation. will definitely look into both of these, with diligence. Thank you.

 

[InfiniteJester]

Now this is the kind of actionable information, that I needed. Harman OE 2018, and HE400se recommendation. will definitely look into both of these, with diligence. Thank you.

I recommend you to use the Oratory1990 preset to Harman.

Preamp: -9.3 dB
Filter 1: ON LS Fc 30 Hz Gain 3.8 dB Q 0.71
Filter 2: ON LS Fc 105 Hz Gain 5.5 dB Q 0.71
Filter 3: ON PK Fc 600 Hz Gain 0.4 dB Q 1.4
Filter 4: ON PK Fc 950 Hz Gain -2.3 dB Q 1.4
Filter 5: ON PK Fc 1900 Hz Gain 7.0 dB Q 1.2
Filter 6: ON PK Fc 2950 Hz Gain -1.2 dB Q 3.5
Filter 7: ON PK Fc 8000 Hz Gain -1.0 dB Q 6.0
Filter 8: ON HS Fc 10000 Hz Gain 1.0 dB Q 0.71

Very hard to beat, in my opinion.

Also, you can read about that headphone here:

Hifiman HE400SE Review (Headphone)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Hifiman HE400SE open back planar magnetic headphone. It was sent to me by online seller, Linsoul and costs US $149. The HE400Se doesn't look fancy: It is however quite comfortable given its thick and large pads. Weight is a bit on the high...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[OK1]

Agree with everything. I just found weird to tune an IEM to a headphone response. I have tuned my HE400se many times to other headphones responses for fun. Particularly, I tried tuning them to Dan Clark headphones to experience what that bass bump is really doing. I have also tried the Empyrean and the Susvara FRs. But nothing beats Harman OE 2018, in my opinion.

Pretty good headphones, the HE400se, completely worth what little they cost, in my experience.

Sorry to put you on the spot. If you had a choice between and planar IEMs, or planar over ears, e.g between the MP145 and the Hifiman HE400se, which would you choose and why?

And is your Hifiman HE 400se the version 1 - Bilateral Magnet, or V2 the Stealth Magnet?

 

[InfiniteJester]

Sorry to put you on the spot. If you had a choice between and planar IEMs, or planar over ears, e.g between the MP145 and the Hifiman HE400se, which would you choose and why?

And is your Hifiman HE 400se the version 1 - Bilateral Magnet, or V2 the Stealth Magnet?

MP145 because I can't wear headphones with these temperatures and the MP145 is far easier to transport, doesn't need EQ, it is better built and can be easily powered with the European Apple Dongle on Android.

I have the V2 with Stealth Magnets.

 

[OK1]

MP145 because I can't wear headphones with these temperatures and the MP145 is far easier to transport, doesn't need EQ, it is better built and can be easily powered with the European Apple Dongle on Android.

I have the V2 with Stealth Magnets.

Thanks. Too many temptations. MP145, Artti T10, HE400se, temptations. Without discipline, if you can afford it, one is tempted to get all three, simply to be able to hear them. This can become addictive, the search for better, takes a lot of discipline to know when to stop.

Really making the effort to stick with what I need, not what I want....

Your opinions have been most helpful. Thanks.

 

[OK1]

Took a few days to learn how to insert an IEM properly in ears, with the CCA CRA, and one ear was healing from the extreme pressure that was imposed by my JVC cheapies, to achieve a good seal. Definitely glad to no more be using the JVC's which were a nightmare to keep in the ear. The CCA CRA's probably need adjustment, like a slight tap in each ear, once or twice a day. I do not like inserting them so deep in the ear, to the point where they become painful. Find them comfortable, slightly on the heavy side, must check what they weigh, and can usually forget that I'm wearing them, compared with over the ears - not having a headband is a relief.

 

[OK1]

I'm thinking of some kind of hybrid tuning that is a mid point between something like the HD600 and the Harman 2019 IEM, in the bass region, slightly boosting the bass of the HD600 based tuning, for critical listening.

On the CCA CRA, I think the StaticV3 target is a good representation of that mid-point that has the "balance, mid-range focus, relaxed bass and highs" of the HD600 and Etymotic targets, combined with a slight boost in the highs and the lows (V shape) of the Harman 2019 IEM target, or the default AutoEQ.app target.

It's only after listening for a while that it's clear the V-Shape of the un-EQ's CCA CRA's is definitely not neutral. I am liking this StaticV3 target. Especially when listening at louder levels, the V-Shape becomes fatiguing. We learn each day.

 

[Jimbob54]

How can I get/download the Crinacle 2023 revised target for IEM's, which has a flat low frequency end?

You can find it somewhere in the AutoEQ github files or somewhere close to that. But the crin 2020 iem target was the one with flat bass. The revised 2023 curve has a pretty gentle slope from bass to mids.

 

[OK1]

Agree with everything. I just found weird to tune an IEM to a headphone response. I have tuned my HE400se many times to other headphones responses for fun. Particularly, I tried tuning them to Dan Clark headphones to experience what that bass bump is really doing. I have also tried the Empyrean and the Susvara FRs. But nothing beats Harman OE 2018, in my opinion.

Pretty good headphones, the HE400se, completely worth what little they cost, in my experience.

The Etymotic target which is clearly for IEMs is not significantly different from the HD600 which is clearly a OE target.

 

[OK1]

You can find it somewhere in the AutoEQ github files or somewhere close to that. But the crin 2020 iem target was the one with flat bass. The revised 2023 curve has a pretty gentle slope from bass to mids.

Noted - will search. I am fairly certain I downloaded the entire AutoEQ Github site, as a safekeep - one never knows with Web sites, another few years they could be gone !! Will check.

Thanks

 

[OK1]

What is the flattest target curve?

it has to do with the old post of mine you replied. I was talking about studies to determine a neutral response in headphone OK. I guess I'm lost here. I was sort of replying to the OP's question.

audiosciencereview.com

I found this comment, which was posted about a month ago, and this helped me understand better, what InfiniteJester had said earlier on this thread. :

Agree with everything. I just found weird to tune an IEM to a headphone response. I have tuned my HE400se many times to other headphones responses for fun. Particularly, I tried tuning them to Dan Clark headphones to experience what that bass bump is really doing. I have also tried the Empyrean and the Susvara FRs. But nothing beats Harman OE 2018, in my opinion.

Pretty good headphones, the HE400se, completely worth what little they cost, in my experience.

When I ensured that the CCA CRA's were having a good seal, I observe that any EQ targets I had created to emulate headphones such as the Senn HD600, were no longer effective. We learn.

 

[OK1]

Agree with everything. I just found weird to tune an IEM to a headphone response. I have tuned my HE400se many times to other headphones responses for fun. Particularly, I tried tuning them to Dan Clark headphones to experience what that bass bump is really doing. I have also tried the Empyrean and the Susvara FRs. But nothing beats Harman OE 2018, in my opinion.

Pretty good headphones, the HE400se, completely worth what little they cost, in my experience.

Been trying out the Harman OE 2018 + a bit of sub bass lift I chose to add to the target. Very Nice.. Thanks. So for casual listening I use this, clear enough yet warm, and comfortable for long term listening. I really like it.

The StaticV3 target, boosts the sub bass a bit more, in my opinion. An alternative.

With these two targets, I think I have all I need. with respect to targets. They tame the native V Shaped FR of the CCA CRA's nicely, for a more neutral FR.

Thanks.