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Is my amp enough for my speakers?

CarlToft

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I just bought a Wiim amp and Kef R3 metas.I will be listening to the speakers around 3 meters away from them.
I have looked at the specs and the amp should deliver enough power.

But then i read some articles saying that the Kef R3 needs a beefier amp. So now i am confused.
 

DVDdoug

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It your setup goes loud enough without hearing distortion, you're fine. ;) If it goes louder than you want that's even more proof that you have enough power.

read some articles saying that the Kef R3 needs a beefier amp.
I didn't look at the specs but there should be a sensitivity spec that says how loud they will go at 1W and 1 meter.

There's no "minimum" wattage for a speaker, although some manufactures imply it, or sometimes they give you a "recommended power range."

The speaker's wattage rating is the maximum that your amplifier should hit on the peaks. i.e. If you have a 100W amplifier and 100W speakers, and the amplifier is not clipping you should be safe. But it's "statistical"... The woofer can handle more power than the tweeter, and the peak-to-average ratio in music (the musical dynamics) varies. It's the short-term average that burns-out speakers. And, as you push an amplifier above clipping the average continues to go up, even though the peaks have hit their maximum.
 

Timcognito

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The manual says 15-180 w into 4 ohms so 60 - 120 should be more than sufficient in medium sized room. Many class D amps can meet that requirement and a modest cost. Click on the Review Index above >Audio Electronics >Amplifier > Price (click on column head) choose price range you want to spend and read some recommended reviews. Narrow it down and come back with any questions or ask for choosing help.
 
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CarlToft

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The manual says 15-180 w into 4 ohms so 60 - 120 should be more than sufficient in medium sized room. Many class D amps can meet that requirement and a modest cost. Click on the Review Index above >Audio Electronics > Price (click on column head) choose price range you want to spend and read some recommended reviews. Narrow it down and come back with any questions or ask for choosing help.
Sorry i was bad at describing but i just bought the Wiim amp which seems like a great package with streamer and amp together. So i cant afford to buy a new amp unfortunally.
 

Timcognito

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Sorry i was bad at describing but i just bought the Wiim amp which seems like a great package with streamer and amp together. So i cant afford to buy a new amp unfortunally.
So I hope you are reading the WiiM Amp thread, if not start now and ask over there if anyone is using it with the R3.
 

DonH56

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Wiim amp = 60 W into 8 ohms, 120 W into 4 ohms, per their spec
Kef R3 = 4 ohms nominal, 87 dB/2.83V/m = 84 dB/W/m

Using this calculator (below) a pair 3 m away will provide about 98 dB max with no room reinforcement and 120 W input. You'll have to decide if that is loud enough for you.

 
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CarlToft

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Wiim amp = 60 W into 8 ohms, 120 W into 4 ohms, per their spec
Kef R3 = 4 ohms nominal, 87 dB/2.83V/m = 84 dB/W/m

Using this calculator (below) a pair 3 m away will provide about 98 dB max with no room reinforcement and 120 W input. You'll have to decide if that is loud enough for you.

I am very new to Speaker amps so I am confused if that is enough headroom for the speaker to sound optimal.
 

antcollinet

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I am very new to Speaker amps so I am confused if that is enough headroom for the speaker to sound optimal.

I am currently listening "quite loud" - my iphone thinks it is about. 70dB

Even if you allow for 10dB headroom - you can still listen at an average of 88dB. That is very loud, and at a level where you need to limit your listening time to avoid hearing damage.

This site suggests limiting 89dB to 5 hours per week.

I would suggest your amp is fine.
 

Eleo

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It's really up to you. There are two elements to consider:

1) How loud you like to listen;

2) The type of music you prefer.

The type of music is very important because some genres have a small dynamic range - pop music, for example - while others have a larger dynamic range.

I will try to give an example to illustrate the ideas. I listen to classical music - very wide dynamic range, say 18-20 dB - with Wharfedale Lintons - about 85 dB sensitivity at 1.5 metres. I want to get, say, 85 dB average spl. I know that if the average spl is 85 dB, there will be instantaneous peaks of 103-1035 dB, so my amp will need to deliver about 140 watts/8 ohms. In your case, given that you can get 98 dB max Spl at your listening position, you should calibrate the average Spl to the dynamic range of the music you prefer.

See also: https://dr.loudness-war.info/ to get an idea of the dynamic range of recorded music.
 

antcollinet

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I want to get, say, 85 dB average spl.

Are you really listening at that level? Again - as stated above, that is very loud - and too loud for long term listening if you value your hearing.
 

Eleo

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Actually, I made a mistake: 85 dB is not the average level but the max level. My app on the iPad says that when the max level is 85 dB there are short-term peaks of 103-105 dB - for example, the attack of a kettledrum roll. The average level is notably lower. Moreover, my main system is in a different house from that in which I live. I can listen to it no more than two hours per week. So, no risk of hearing damage
 

wunderkind

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You have the gear, right? Does it play loud enough for you? If so, your good! Don’t worry and enjoy!
It is obviously too obvious. Therefore perhaps one might deduce this thread's true motive is an excuse for upgradelitis. :)
 

voodooless

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LTig

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If 120 W are not enough to reach the SPL the owner requires then 180 W (max input for the R3) won't be an audible improvement. In this case he needs other speakers with higher sensitivity and/or higher wattage.
 

Vacceo

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I am very new to Speaker amps so I am confused if that is enough headroom for the speaker to sound optimal.
98 decibels on the place you listen to is going deaf territory if you sustain that volumen.
 

Chagall

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It's really up to you. There are two elements to consider:

1) How loud you like to listen;

2) The type of music you prefer.

The type of music is very important because some genres have a small dynamic range - pop music, for example - while others have a larger dynamic range.

I will try to give an example to illustrate the ideas. I listen to classical music - very wide dynamic range, say 18-20 dB - with Wharfedale Lintons - about 85 dB sensitivity at 1.5 metres. I want to get, say, 85 dB average spl. I know that if the average spl is 85 dB, there will be instantaneous peaks of 103-1035 dB, so my amp will need to deliver about 140 watts/8 ohms. In your case, given that you can get 98 dB max Spl at your listening position, you should calibrate the average Spl to the dynamic range of the music you prefer.

See also: https://dr.loudness-war.info/ to get an idea of the dynamic range of recorded music.

More elements:

3) Room corrections software or EQ - Dirac can take 10 dB.
4) Volume leveling or normalizing volume - depends on the track but -5dB usually for modern music

Maybe doesn't apply now, but a beefier amp is certainly more future-proof (not saying anything about sound quality if distortion is low on both amps).
 

radix

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As @LTig said, you cannot just throw more watts at a speaker. That said, I suspect 120 wpc is OK.

The KEF specs say max level is 110 dB, which at 84 dB/W/m needs almost 400w. That's for peaks. Their amplifier rating of upto 180w is likely their "nominal power" not their "peak power".

To reproduce 92 dB SPL @ 3m with 3dB of headroom (good for popular music, not classical or accoustic) at 84 dB/W/m needs 113 watts. So you are likely just fine.

These calculators (I use https://www.crownaudio.com/en-US/tools/calculators "amplifier power required") are to estimate what you should buy. As has been pointed out, you have it, so if what you hear is OK, then you're OK.

If you want to, you could get a UMIK-1 and learn to use REW to see what your actual distortion figure is. If I were to bet, I'd say the mid- and high- frequency is OK but you'll start to see bass distortion playing really loud out of bookshelf speakers. They might also be coupling to whatever surface you have them on. This would call for adding a sub or changing the stands/feet, not getting a new amp.

If I were to do anything, I'd get that measurement mic (UMIK) and objectively test what you have. I bet it will be OK. Make your purchase decisions on data, not opinions.
 

Jimbob54

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I just bought a Wiim amp and Kef R3 metas.I will be listening to the speakers around 3 meters away from them.
I have looked at the specs and the amp should deliver enough power.

But then i read some articles saying that the Kef R3 needs a beefier amp. So now i am confused.
When you say 'bought' you mean you have them in your possession? Or you're in delivery window purgatory?

If the former, stop reading and start listening. If the latter, assuming a return is an option, wait and then start listening.
 

Chagall

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As @LTig said, you cannot just throw more watts at a speaker. That said, I suspect 120 wpc is OK.

The KEF specs say max level is 110 dB, which at 84 dB/W/m needs almost 400w. That's for peaks. Their amplifier rating of upto 180w is likely their "nominal power" not their "peak power".

To reproduce 92 dB SPL @ 3m with 3dB of headroom (good for popular music, not classical or accoustic) at 84 dB/W/m needs 113 watts. So you are likely just fine.

These calculators (I use https://www.crownaudio.com/en-US/tools/calculators "amplifier power required") are to estimate what you should buy. As has been pointed out, you have it, so if what you hear is OK, then you're OK.

If you want to, you could get a UMIK-1 and learn to use REW to see what your actual distortion figure is. If I were to bet, I'd say the mid- and high- frequency is OK but you'll start to see bass distortion playing really loud out of bookshelf speakers. They might also be coupling to whatever surface you have them on. This would call for adding a sub or changing the stands/feet, not getting a new amp.

If I were to do anything, I'd get that measurement mic (UMIK) and objectively test what you have. I bet it will be OK. Make your purchase decisions on data, not opinions.

Wondering how many watts Kef would put in an active R3 speaker, considering LS 50 wireless II has 280W for LF and 100W for HF amps.

EDIT: Also not sure why Kef R3 meta is 4ohms and regular R3 is 8ohms (impedance curves look very similar) but both have max 180W amps recommended in their specs.
 
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