Introducing the Phono Cartridge Measurement Library

[Thomas_A]

The SRA if my Jico is correct but The VTA of the SAS B for my Shure V15 IV is 30 degrees and gives uneccessary 2% intermodulation distortion when a proper angle would give <0,5% . Why Jico does this I do not understand. I will never by a Jico SAS again, the answer I get when I ask Jico about this is nonsense….

Post in thread 'Introducing the Phono Cartridge Measurement Library'
https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...tridge-measurement-library.46108/post-1830454

Did you compare distortion of the JICO with the new hyperelliptical stylus? From the current sweep it seems the JICO has ≈10 dB lower harmonic distortion 1 kHz and up.

 

[Balle Clorin]

The SRA of the HE is 80-85 degrees and may disturb the results, I am waiting for a replacement.

 

[Bob from Florida]

AUDIO TECHNICA VM95ML (EDITED)

View attachment 297877
View attachment 297878
NOTES:

• Music Hall Stealth DD ->QUAD Artera PRE -> RME ADI-2 PRO
• Test record not flat
• Redone after cart re-setup and using side 2 of the test record
• <10 hours on cart
• strange distortion wiggle
• Not exactly extended

Do you see anything terribly wrong with the plot? I ask because the VM95SH I just purchased sounds terrific. It is mounted on a high mass arm, if that makes any difference. Music Hall does not publish the mass of the arm on the Stealth table. I sent the company a message asking for the mass. Roy Hall replied that it was medium mass - no specifics.

 

[red_delta]

Rega Exact 2

Notes

• Cartridge: Rega Exact 2
• Stylus condition <100hrs on vinyl
• Test record: CBS STR100 issue 3
• Turntable: Rega Planar 3 stock
• Tracking force: 1.75g
• Phono stage: Cambridge Audio Duo
• Capacitance- Unknown, likely around 210pF
• Rip kindly provided by a friend who I sent the record to
• Cartridge was originally sent back to the manufacturer due to suspected issues, but was returned to him with them stating that they tested it and found nothing wrong

 

[red_delta]

Oh there is a minor error on my above post, it was actually ripped using a focusrite scarlett 2i2 gen 4, not a laptop adc

 

[mackat]

Ortofon MC 20 MKII
Click to increase size
View attachment 325912View attachment 325913
View attachment 325920View attachment 325921
View attachment 325918View attachment 325917View attachment 325916
Cartridge picture from google search to note that this is the silver version. Original post.

Notes

• These results are from @mackat
• The second set has FR adjusted to my CA TRS-1007
• Used, low output MC with nude fine-line stylus, not sure about the cantilever
  • Distinguished at the time (1979) for its tracking ability
  • The original MC 20 (1977) was marketed as having "the lowest tip mass ever attained on a phono cartridge"
• As you can see the result is quite different than the Stereo Review measurements of the original MC 20
• The close up afforded by the script shows an almost clunky integration of the high frequency resonance
• Another relatively unusual modern cartridge with limited low frequency response
• I don't know much about MC cartridges but I believe that this was quite a popular cartridge in the early 1980s

Here is an updated measurement of this Ortofon MC 20 Mk II:

 

[DSJR]

Rega Exact 2

View attachment 342429
Notes

• Cartridge: Rega Exact 2
• Stylus condition <100hrs on vinyl
• Test record: CBS STR100 issue 3
• Turntable: Rega Planar 3 stock
• Tracking force: 1.75g
• Phono stage: Cambridge Audio Duo
• Capacitance- Unknown, likely around 210pF
• Rip kindly provided by a friend who I sent the record to
• Cartridge was originally sent back to the manufacturer due to suspected issues, but was returned to him with them stating that they tested it and found nothing wrong

I can't stand the thing (dull and squidgy sound to me despite the better diamond and some had reliability issues in past production) but that channel imbalance doesn't look right as I've seen earlier versions of these being hand tweaked internally to minimise this (they're very 'basic' inside). Maybe that's how they are these days, but if it's not old I'd query it!

 

[red_delta]

I can't stand the thing (dull and squidgy sound to me despite the better diamond and some had reliability issues in past production) but that channel imbalance doesn't look right as I've seen earlier versions of these being hand tweaked internally to minimise this (they're very 'basic' inside). Maybe that's how they are these days, but if it's not old I'd query it!

Heres the full story from my friend "I sent the original cartridge that came with this table to rega CS for a fucked up suspension (back of cart was almost touching records). They said yep that was broken and sent me a new one. That one is what I am currently using and what was sent back to them for the channel imbalance issues. It also rides pretty low so I guess that’s just how rega carts are lol. Safe to say this will be my first and last rega cart". In addition we knew prior to sending them the cart that it had channel balance issues as we had him rip a different record and there was large channel imbalance.

 

[narud]

Jico vn5mr sas/b (mounted on a vstv)

-jico vn5mr sas with unknown hours
-technics sl1700mk2 with damper, 1.25 grams brush up
-parks audio puffin (130 total pf with cables)
-tascam 1x2
-shure vstv body

i took a chance on ebay on a group of styli. this was in the bunch. owner thought it was worn as it sounded harsh. after a cleaning, it still looks pretty good. at 1.25 grams it performed well on the shure era v tracking tests so i thought id measure it. i mounted up a vstv body i have since my v15vmr is my daily driver and the jico cantilever is shorter so i didnt want to mess with the overhang. the vstv has left and right resistance readings that were identical, but the inductance had a bigger difference than the v15v body i use and keep mounted up.

considering where the high end rise starts and my high frequency hearing ends, this particular sample still sounds really good to me. it didnt sound like i was using an AT cart or something similar.

 

[JP]

SAS/B?

 

[narud]

SAS/B?

yes sorry. just edited the post

 

[Balle Clorin]

seems like the last Jico SAS/B are without the AT 12-16k resonance? and or higher or not at all?

 

[Thomas_A]

seems like the last Jico SAS/B are without the AT 12-16k resonance? and or higher or not at all?

Just curious did you try your SAS/B up to 50 kHz?

 

[DSJR]

The original as tested was either flat with 5dB dip from 10 to 20kHz or a straight line downtilt from 1 - 20kHz of the same amount if under-capacitance loaded. I appreciate the difference in test discs, but it's not the first time I've heard of Jico styli (SAS or otherwise) not being the same as the originals which were pretty truthful to what was cut (according to my mastering engineer pal who still uses an original - he's a confirmed digital chap but retains his vinyl player)

 

[narud]

seems like the last Jico SAS/B are without the AT 12-16k resonance? and or higher or not at all?

this one is pretty old. its from when they were still using this box and labeling it 192-vn5mr hg

 

[aaaakkkk]

seems like the last Jico SAS/B are without the AT 12-16k resonance? and or higher or not at all?

Their Design is such that one Jico SAS/B can be as different from another. The design has nothing in common with the original. The parts from which the replacement stylus unit is made have insufficient accuracy. During assembly, gaps and skews are formed, which affect the final frequency response. When you buy Jico you are buying Jico sound, but not the sound of the original cartridge.
And of course, sometimes their styluses, assembled without skew, can play even better than the original ones.

 

[Thomas_A]

Their Design is such that one Jico SAS/B can be as different from another. The design has nothing in common with the original. The parts from which the replacement stylus unit is made have insufficient accuracy. During assembly, gaps and skews are formed, which affect the final frequency response. When you buy Jico you are buying Jico sound, but not the sound of the original cartridge.
And of course, sometimes their styluses, assembled without skew, can play even better than the original ones.

When it comes to Shure, their QC during the latest year of production was not especially good. The beryllium stylii I got were not especially good when inspecting in microscopes (I think their mounting moved from US to Mexico at some time, and I don't know if QC is related to that). The JICO SAS/B have been much better in that respect with respect to symmetry. I also think that they do what they can given the limited stylus and diamond supply. Differences in VTA will be there given how the stylus is mounted on the rods. BAS measured the original V15 having 28° VTA rather than the claimed 23°.

JICO is not immune to QC issues either, so I wonder what the actual differences are caused by. Shure V15-V and VST-V should be very similar cartridges, but actual values of coils may differ individually. Same goes for V15-IV and V15-III as well. Other than small differences between stylii the only difference I can think of is variable settings of the tension wire of the rather simple suspension design of the JICO, but I can only see that as causing differences in the compliance and fundamental cart-arm resonance, rather than the HF peaking.

 

[VinyLuke]

Shure V15 III with Jico SAS/B

Notes:

• Shure V15III L-M in wooden housing
• Turntable: Technics SL-1210GR with KAB Fluid Damper
• Headshell: Technics TPBAA201 (stock)
• VTF: 1.25gr
• Phono stage: HusaRIAA v2 (http://tinyurl.com/45ke55cx)
  • ~240pF (set at 147pF)
  • 42kΩ
• Cable capacitance
  • 85pF (measured total tonearm+interconnect)
• ASUS PRIME B660M-A Line In and Audacity
• Clearaudio CA-TRS-1007

I don't know why Crosstalk is like that @1kHz. I can provide files if someone wants to investigate.
EDIT: Thanks @JP for fixed graph. Nothing wrong with my rig, the files were not set right for the script.

 

[Balle Clorin]

Seems like a resonance of some kind. The 10kHz response reminds me of some of my stylus where the SRA is off.. Have you checked it visually?
Can you share a plot there the true channel balance is shown

 

[aaaakkkk]

Shure V15 III with Jico SAS/B

View attachment 343469

Notes:

• Shure V15III L-M in wooden housing
• Turntable: Technics SL-1210GR with KAB Fluid Damper
• Headshell: Technics TPBAA201 (stock)
• VTF: 1.25gr
• Phono stage: HusaRIAA v2 (http://tinyurl.com/45ke55cx)
  • ~240pF (set at 147pF)
  • 42kΩ
• Cable capacitance
  • 85pF (measured total tonearm+interconnect)
• ASUS PRIME B660M-A Line In and Audacity
• Clearaudio CA-TRS-1007

I don't know why Crosstalk is like that @1kHz. I can provide files if someone wants to investigate.

Possibly this is a mechanical problem in the stylus-cantilever-magnet-damper unit, the magnet may touch the tube. changing the downforce may remove this. try 1.4 grams.