Introducing the Phono Cartridge Measurement Library

[Balle Clorin]

I get

SRA = 80, is it possible?

I use get SRA 85 about, more VTA makes it worse

 

[Balle Clorin]

@Balle Clorin

Re VTA: Make sure your SRA is correct first. 1 g VTF might be to little, suspension compression is too light. Range is 1.0-1.5 g. Suspension might change after a few hours play also.

SRA seems around 94°. Adjust VTF up and check again.

Can try but, More VTF makes right channel drop more above 10k, track 70um on Ortofon record, slight buzz in both channels at 80um

 

[Thomas_A]

I get

I use get SRA 85 about, more VTA makes it worse

If you mean -5 degree (which I denote 95°), then it is a bit too much IMO. -2 degree (92°) is a target. I think it is better to adjust for minimum distortion in the high frequencies.

 

[Thomas_A]

Can try but, More VTF makes right channel drop more above 10k, track 70um on Ortofon record, slight buzz in both channels at 80um

My JICO tracks 100 µm on the Ortofon record (1.4 g, brush down (with added oil to hinges)).

 

[Harryharryharry]

This thread is so great but it's a bit time consuming to go through all the individual posts to find out which ones are the top performing carts. Has anyone extracted a top 5 list yet?

I was just about to suggest the same thing. A short list of recommended or +-0.5db cartridges would be amazing.

 

[aaaakkkk]

If you mean -5 degree (which I denote 95°), then it is a bit too much IMO. -2 degree (92°) is a target. I think it is better to adjust for minimum distortion in the high frequencies.
View attachment 338244

HYPEREL 6445 VTA,SRA

I commented on this photo

 

[Thomas_A]

HYPEREL 6445 VTA,SRA
View attachment 338361
I commented on this photo

Yes, I misunderstood. That stylus is faulty/ broken.

 

[Balle Clorin]

Very nice. In this case you might need 60k. How does it sound?

Low distortion. Reminds me I need a new JICO SAS.

V15-IV JICO SAS-B ON SONY PS-212 DD TT. 1.5gram brush down.

SONY V15-IVSASBBRUSH WATER OF LOVE LEVEL ADJ.wav

drive.google.com

AT33PTGII ON SME V MICHELL GYRO SE

AT33-PTG2 DIRE STRAITS WATER OF LOVE Ladj.wav

drive.google.com

Files are level matched as good as I could. Here is PN comparison for cartridge

Pink noise track on XG-7001(RIAA Eq)

 

[Thomas_A]

Thanks for the tracks. I think they are quite similar. Subjectively the AT is a bit more fierce in treble and the Shure/JICO calmer and has less HF noise, as measured.

There is a quite large azimuth correction on cartridge. Did you check the stylus angle as well? I usually recommend not to go further than +/- 2° for cartridge tilt unless there is something wrong with the headshell/tonearm azimuth angle. Also check with the 1 kHz tone of the Ortofon record (I am not too confident of the CA TRS record azimuth). Also I remeasured your static SRA @ 1 g and following the side lines of the stylus I get ≈121°+71° which gives ≈96° or -6°. Dynamic SRA is slightly different, but I think your VTF is a bit low at 1 g. If you use the brush you need to add around 0.2 g to the recommended 1.0-1.5 g range.

 

[Balle Clorin]

Yes I agree CA TRS-1007 crosstalk is off, Ortofon is best at that. almost 4 degrees correction was required, but less than Obray spec of 5 degrees.
Running at 1.5grams with brush now

 

[dlaloum]

V15-IV JICO SAS-B ON SONY PS-212 DD TT. 1.5gram brush down.

SONY V15-IVSASBBRUSH WATER OF LOVE LEVEL ADJ.wav

drive.google.com

AT33PTGII ON SME V MICHELL GYRO SE

AT33-PTG2 DIRE STRAITS WATER OF LOVE Ladj.wav

drive.google.com

Files are level matched as good as I could. Here is PN comparison for cartridge
View attachment 338484

The PTG looks like it has a problem with undamped resonance - it is in a relatively "safe" place - but still, probably could get some benefit from an arm with fluid damping (or equivalent) - The highs reflect a cantilever resonance which cannot be compensated for without digital EQ (would be nice if the effective tip mass were lower... then the peak wouldn't be there!)

The SAS is nicely tuned in there - you could perhaps fine tune it a dab more - but the result wouldn't be substantial (and probably not audible)

I have a vintage Sony MC that has almost the exact same profile as the PTG you are showing there - and it has a certain "sweetness" of tone, that is quite attractive on many records... a bell like clarity, which can be lovely.... when I experimented with digital EQ to match its F/R to a flat profile, the sweetness evaporated.... and it then sounded identical to similarly adjusted Shure/SAS, Ortofon OM30, AT440MLz and others from my collection.

 

[dennis h]

(edited)

I have a vintage Sony MC that has almost the exact same profile as the PTG you are showing there - and it has a certain "sweetness" of tone, that is quite attractive on many records... a bell like clarity, which can be lovely.... when I experimented with digital EQ to match its F/R to a flat profile, the sweetness evaporated.... and it then sounded identical to similarly adjusted Shure/SAS, Ortofon OM30, AT440MLz and others from my collection.

F/R change or phase change?
(the loss of sweetness)
Or something else ?

 

[dlaloum]

F/R change or phase change?
(the loss of sweetness)
Or something else ?

Frequency Response ...

Matching about 7 or 8 cartridges to each other in level and frequency response resulted in them being pretty much indistinguishable from each other, where in the raw (even using custom loadings to get the F/R as neutral as possible) - they still sounded distinctive.

It was a subjective test... and I matched levels to within 0.2db - but it demonstrated something very important to me....

With digital filtering, a focus on distortion and trackability, along with effective tip mass, is what is needed for optimal performance - the more obvious frequency response that usually differentiates the character of different cartridges/styli, can now be remedied digitally... the other aspects however can only be adjusted mechanically - so that then defined/defines my selection criteria!

 

[Balle Clorin]

The PTG looks like it has a problem with undamped resonance - it is in a relatively "safe" place - but still, probably could get some benefit from an arm with fluid damping (or equivalent) - The highs reflect a cantilever resonance which cannot be compensated for without digital EQ (would be nice if the effective tip mass were lower... then the peak wouldn't be there!)

The SAS is nicely tuned in there - you could perhaps fine tune it a dab more - but the result wouldn't be substantial (and probably not audible)

I have a vintage Sony MC that has almost the exact same profile as the PTG you are showing there - and it has a certain "sweetness" of tone, that is quite attractive on many records... a bell like clarity, which can be lovely.... when I experimented with digital EQ to match its F/R to a flat profile, the sweetness evaporated.... and it then sounded identical to similarly adjusted Shure/SAS, Ortofon OM30, AT440MLz and others from my collection.

Spoiler: eq

Pure luck with the capacitance, 120+10+220=350 Cambridge 220pF (blue)
Parks Audio Puffing with 50pF total 120+50=170 Red

+ Puffin EQ settings Air/Treble

 

[Thomas_A]

Hm, I have a bit difficulties to understand the loading result of the Cambridge vs the Puffin. Usually higher capacitance moves the peak to lower fr, and makes drop at lower f too. Below with pink noise.

 

[dlaloum]

Hm, I have a bit difficulties to understand the loading result of the Cambridge vs the Puffin. Usually higher capacitance moves the peak to lower fr, and makes drop at lower f too. Below with pink noise.

View attachment 338764

I'm not convinced that we understand exactly what the Puffin is doing to the signal... the Cambridge is a traditional phono stage - we know what is happening there.

 

[narud]

I'm not convinced that we understand exactly what the Puffin is doing to the signal... the Cambridge is a traditional phono stage - we know what is happening there.

ive done a couple comparison plots of left channels of carts comparing the puffin to standard pres and i havent noticed anything out of the ordinary or unexpected with regard to frequency response. .
signet am50 puffin at 130pf total vs art djpre at 120pf total

shure v15v-mr puffin at 130pf total vs emotiva xps-1 at 300pf total

the signet measurements come close to matching at pretty much the same capacitance. the shure doesnt show the same high end response without enough capacitance from the puffin which i was expecting. however i dont know why the distortion was so much higher on the puffin measurement. set up?

 

[JP]

More stuff for the never-ending list.

 

[dlaloum]

More stuff for the never-ending list.

View attachment 339075

Very nice seletion!!

 

[SeriousSeri]

More stuff for the never-ending list.

View attachment 339075

How do you cope with having to setup the lot of them perfectly before making a final measurement with high confidence? Asking for a friend...