Introducing Denotiva DIY speakers!

[RickS]

You probably know the ND25FW resonance is coming into the response here. Some impedance compensation may benefit greatly to reduce the likely "honkiness" being generated by the tweeter.

Yes, as @terryforsythe already mentioned earlier. The C-Note uses the same tweeter, and the resonance for that design shows closer to 1.5 kHz.

The ND25FW resonance peak is pretty low Q and its magnitude tops at 8 ohms. Do you really think there is a major benefit to impedance comp it? Nobody seems to complain about any C-Note honkiness.

 

[Dave Bullet]

Yes, and @terryforsythe already mentioned earlier. The C-Note uses the same tweeter, and the resonance for that design shows closer to 1.5 kHz.

The ND25FW resonance peak is pretty low Q and its magnitude tops at 8 ohms. Do you really think there is a major benefit to impedance comp it? Nobody seems to complain about any C-Note honkiness.

Good point.

I can only find this post showing a distortion sweep of the ND25FW-4 however I'm a little suspicious that distortion is so low below 1KHz where any dome tweeter will naturally rise if doing a full frequency sweep at a high (say 95dB) level):

ND25FW-4 measurements

Tweeters laying on pillows on floor facing straight up. OmniMic 1 foot away: (Image) (Image) (Image)

diy.midwestaudio.club

Have you taken any HD measurements?

The original reason for my comment was the bump in the tweeters response. Anything I see above the 1% level (-40dB) I take note of and wonder if it is affecting tonality or has some underlying related distortion product.

 

[Bryguy]

Well got spins in earlier in the week and have been playing with crossover designs for most of the week. The Wavecor has some rough spots that make it better if crossed low but the Dayton tweeter wants to be crossed higher. Am going to proto the lower cross and see how the tweeter handles. Can always go back to the DXT. Am also looking at the Wavecor tweeter but PE is stocked out.

Have you seen these?

TW030WA21/22

They are set to replace the TW030WA09/10. They aren't available yet on the big sites. I'm not sure why. They look very cool though, and could probably pretty easily handle lower crossover

 

[eddantes]

Have you seen these?

TW030WA21/22

They are set to replace the TW030WA09/10. They aren't available yet on the big sites. I'm not sure why. They look very cool though, and could probably pretty easily handle lower crossover

Good looking data. Fs of 750 and 1% THD at <1.5K. Smooth and even directivity. Nice.
EDIT - looked up the price - at CAD$110 it's not for a bargain build.

 

[Bryguy]

Good looking data. Fs of 750 and 1% THD at <1.5K. Smooth and even directivity. Nice.
EDIT - looked up the price - at CAD$110 it's not for a bargain build.

You are right. However, Rick said he was considering DXT which is more expensive even that that

 

[RickS]

You are right. However, Rick said he was considering DXT which is more expensive even that that

Yes, but I have DXTs. So costs me nothing to try other than my time.

Was looking at the Wavecor WA11 actually. Yes, is not as cheap as the ND25 but may be less crossover hassle and sound better too. Good find and will have to see about availability. Do not want a tweeter that is about to be discontinued either.

 

[RickS]

Good point.

I can only find this post showing a distortion sweep of the ND25FW-4 however I'm a little suspicious that distortion is so low below 1KHz where any dome tweeter will naturally rise if doing a full frequency sweep at a high (say 95dB) level):

ND25FW-4 measurements

Tweeters laying on pillows on floor facing straight up. OmniMic 1 foot away: (Image) (Image) (Image)

diy.midwestaudio.club

Have you taken any HD measurements?

Ofc, that is how discovered the peak originally but was a full speaker measurement. I reviewed the driver one post facto.

Am not under conditions that would publish driver measures for others to consider. Would not trust any that are not done under tightly controlled conditions.

 

[RickS]

Talked to PE customer service and the Wavecor WA11 expected “any day now” is moving to end of October. They mentioned that Wavecor was out of stock so may be getting replaced as posted earlier. Looks like time to try the DXT.

 

[a4eaudio]

Talked to PE customer service and the Wavecor WA11 expected “any day now” is moving to end of October. They mentioned that Wavecor was out of stock so may be getting replaced as posted earlier. Looks like time to try DXT.

Is it this one? (Ignore the incorrect "capacitor" label, somehow the link created some auto-labelling)

(Edit: I just realized...if replaced = discontinued then probably not relevant)

Capacitor

18-160vY

www.jfcomponents.com

 

[RickS]

Is it this one? (Ignore the incorrect "capacitor" label, somehow the link created some auto-labelling)

(Edit: I just realized...if replaced = discontinued then probably not relevant)

Capacitor

18-160vY

www.jfcomponents.com

Yes, will wait it out and see. If the new one is better and at comparable price, will look at it. PE is the major distributor here but is a secondary product line for them.

 

[Bryguy]

Wavecor site doesn't make mention of replacing the WA11. It's the 09/10 they're replacing. I wouldn't be surprised if the WA11 gets replaced too at some point in a similar fashion to the 09/10, but for now it doesn't seem like it's on the chopping block

 

[RickS]

Wavecor site doesn't make mention of replacing the WA11. It's the 09/10 they're replacing. I wouldn't be surprised if the WA11 gets replaced too at some point in a similar fashion to the 09/10, but for now it doesn't seem like it's on the chopping block

Thanks, looking at it more closely, I thought the WA09 was more like the WA11 and it is not. In any case, the WA11 has a long lead time and PE does not carry the WA09. So not expecting they will carry the WA21/22. Anyway, the hole was originally cut for the DXT so it is any easy swap.

 

[Inertiaman]

I inquired w/ Solen on WA21/22 availability, and they told me they have a batch arriving in 5 weeks. Presumably availability will only improve from that point forward. If PE isn't going to stock these, shipping from Solen into the U.S. isn't too bad. Alternatively, PE will do special orders of things they don't stock, assuming it is from a current supplier.

I think a WA21 + WF182 + PR would be a compelling project and would be distinctive from the Heissmann DXT-Mon-182.
Or does the lower viable crossover freq w/ the WA21 suggest consideration of a marginally larger woofer??

 

[Bryguy]

I inquired w/ Solen on WA21/22 availability, and they told me they have a batch arriving in 5 weeks. Presumably availability will only improve from that point forward. If PE isn't going to stock these, shipping from Solen into the U.S. isn't too bad. Alternatively, PE will do special orders of things they don't stock, assuming it is from a current supplier.

I think a WA21 + WF182 + PR would be a compelling project and would be distinctive from the Heissmann DXT-Mon-182.
Or does the lower viable crossover freq w/ the WA21 suggest consideration of a marginally larger woofer??

I'd expect viable crossover frequency between dxt and WA21 to be pretty similar. The WA11 seems capable of a lower crossover frequency than either though. Could probably pull off an 8+1 with that tweeter

 

[RickS]

I inquired w/ Solen on WA21/22 availability, and they told me they have a batch arriving in 5 weeks. Presumably availability will only improve from that point forward. If PE isn't going to stock these, shipping from Solen into the U.S. isn't too bad. Alternatively, PE will do special orders of things they don't stock, assuming it is from a current supplier.

I think a WA21 + WF182 + PR would be a compelling project and would be distinctive from the Heissmann DXT-Mon-182.
Or does the lower viable crossover freq w/ the WA21 suggest consideration of a marginally larger woofer??

I'd expect viable crossover frequency between dxt and WA21 to be pretty similar. The WA11 seems capable of a lower crossover frequency than either though. Could probably pull off an 8+1 with that tweeter

Maybe, the current cabinet is around 15 liters and to take an 8 inch woofer would mean mounting it on the side. Would need to redo the brace too. With right woofer might work sealed but vented would likely require a bigger cabinet.

 

[Bryguy]

Maybe, the current cabinet is around 15 liters and to take an 8 inch woofer would mean mounting it on the side. Would need to redo the brace too. With right woofer might work sealed but vented would likely require a bigger cabinet.

Yeah, definitely would be an entirely different speaker at that point. I'm personally more drawn to 2 ways with 6-7" midwoofers. 8 inch 2 ways seem pretty tricky to pull off well. I'd definitely be interested to see some more designs like that though. Suzie Q and Disco M from Heissmann look well executed. I'd itch to add a mid though once I get to 8 inch woofers

 

[Inertiaman]

Yeah, definitely would be an entirely different speaker at that point. I'm personally more drawn to 2 ways with 6-7" midwoofers. 8 inch 2 ways seem pretty tricky to pull off well. I'd definitely be interested to see some more designs like that though. Suzie Q and Disco M from Heissmann look well executed. I'd itch to add a mid though once I get to 8 inch woofers

I was attracted to the Disco-M, and wanted to build it, but with the designated waveguide no longer in production, its not a practical option. Heissmann "announced" he would be producing a suitable waveguide option, but that was 18 months ago and still nothing.

Off topic I know, but in my experience, Heissmann has some great designs but is absolutely terrible w.r.t responsiveness. Its been months since he's posted anything on his own website, not even short replies to simple questions/inquiries. If you want clarification or the slightest guidance on an ambiguous portion of a design plan after purchase, you may never get a reply. Might explain why, despite the apparently well-thought-out and well-measured designs, I've seen very, very few examples of anyone building them. Sort of sad from my perspective, but who knows what the guy's day job and other responsibilities might be.

 

[Ktacos]

I was attracted to the Disco-M, and wanted to build it, but with the designated waveguide no longer in production, its not a practical option. Heissmann "announced" he would be producing a suitable waveguide option, but that was 18 months ago and still nothing.

Off topic I know, but in my experience, Heissmann has some great designs but is absolutely terrible w.r.t responsiveness. Its been months since he's posted anything on his own website, not even short replies to simple questions/inquiries. If you want clarification or the slightest guidance on an ambiguous portion of a design plan after purchase, you may never get a reply. Might explain why, despite the apparently well-thought-out and well-measured designs, I've seen very, very few examples of anyone building them. Sort of sad from my perspective, but who knows what the guy's day job and other responsibilities might be.

His page has been up for sometime, dxt mon is 9 years old at this point. The fact that plans cost money is why people don't build his stuff, but imo worth the cost since they seem to perform better than most speakers. Plenty of average to poor free designs out there with active designers to pick from.

 

[RickS]

Yeah, definitely would be an entirely different speaker at that point. I'm personally more drawn to 2 ways with 6-7" midwoofers. 8 inch 2 ways seem pretty tricky to pull off well. I'd definitely be interested to see some more designs like that though. Suzie Q and Disco M from Heissmann look well executed. I'd itch to add a mid though once I get to 8 inch woofers

Suzie Q looks a lot like what a number of members seem to request. Is like the Mechano23 with a more serious woofer. Did not see post of horizontal heat map, but line plots look promising.

 

[Bryguy]

Suzie Q looks a lot like what a number of members seem to request. Is like the Mechano23 with a more serious woofer. Did not see post of horizontal heat map, but line plots look promising.

Yeah Suzie Q looks great. I actually have a pair of H2606 somewhere. Someday I might build a pair. Those Scans woofs are not cheap though. He designed it to be easy to construct, but the results don't indicate he had to compromise much in performance