Internet Upload Speeds

[Sal1950]

Could one of our network techs explain to me why it's so difficult for home providers to offer
some reasonably fast upload speeds? I currently use Xfinity and have a awesome
500 mbps down but a measly 10 up? A quick check of other packages show that
even for big money about the best available for home is 30 mbps?
I don't have any knowledge in networking tech but can't wrapped my head around why
the pipe can be so big down but so limited up?
TIA, Sal

 

[Doodski]

I get 750 down and 100 up in Canada. The 500 down plan is still 100 up too.

 

[GeorgeBynum]

I think it has to do with cable. When I had Charter, mine was 20 down, 1 up. I have fiber (ATT) and now, with their slowest, get 500 down, 500 up. I __THINK__ most fiber is symmetrical.

 

[Sal1950]

I get 750 down and 100 up in Canada.

100 is reasonable, I'd be happy.

 

[BluesDaddy]

I always figured it was because Comcast didn't want people running servers out of their homes.

 

[Doodski]

100 is reasonable, I'd be happy.

Have you contacted your ISP about this? You are not the first person to complain about low up speeds in the USA.

 

[voodooless]

Cable internet just has limited bandwidth available. What is available is rather used for download than upload. Also the whole infrastructure is build for download, less so for upload. The modulation is also different because of this: usually QAM64 vs QAM256. Hence the difference between up and download of 1:10 to roughly 1:50.

 

[Sal1950]

I always figured it was because Comcast didn't want people running servers out of their homes.

You might be onto something there.

Have you contacted your ISP about this?

No. I'm already on a fairly expensive 500/10 upgrade pipe.
They do offer some bigger ones but packaged with even more expensive and only 30 up at it's best.
It's not a can't live without thing, I get by for what I do.
A big part is the curiosity on why.

 

[Sal1950]

Cable internet just has limited bandwidth available. What is available is rather used for download than upload. Also the whole infrastructure is build for download, less so for upload. The modulation is also different because of this: usually QAM64 vs QAM256. Hence the difference between up and download of 1:10 to roughly 1:50.

Thanks, I'm getting it now.

 

[pablolie]

Could one of our network techs explain to me why it's so difficult for home providers to offer
some reasonably fast upload speeds? I currently use Xfinity and have a awesome
500 mbps down but a measly 10 up? A quick check of other packages show that
even for big money about the best available for home is 30 mbps?
I don't have any knowledge in networking tech but can't wrapped my head around why
the pipe can be so big down but so limited up?
TIA, Sal

View attachment 280912

It's simply the way the cable DOCSIS standard was defined: the use case is content distribution, hence the "downstream" component is seen as more important. Most households don't need much upstream bandwidth. The thought there is tt if you need a lot of upstream capacity, you'd pick another offering - like fiber to your house etc.

Keep in mind that, while your Verizons/ATTs/Comcast/etc love to sell you a lot of downstream so that you *consume* 4k or even 8K video content etc, they don't necessarily see consumers as people that need to distribute a lot of content. They *make* a lot of money off the content providers that sell you said 4/8K content, since those need massive pipes to distribute their stuff, and their stuff *is* upstream from the network's perspective - with 100/400G peering and what not.

I am perfectly happy with my downstream 700M and upstream 30M. 30M is quite tolerable for me even though I often edit technology training videos and need to upload them to our company servers. More would be even better of course... :-D

PS: Keep in mind that Netflix 4K video consumes about 14Mbit/s, so with 30Mbit/s I could in theory distribute two 4K channels from my place... who would have thought that when we thought 56kbit/s modems were *awesome*... :-D

 

[Sal1950]

Cable internet just has limited bandwidth available.

It's simply the way the cable DOCSIS standard was defined: the use case is content distribution, hence the "downstream" component is seen as more important.

Thanks friends I get it now.
In my case, I'm buying a 510 mbps pipe package with is divided into 500&10 because that's what is most important to 99% of the customers. They need a big down pipe for video steams etc but very little need for much up.
Very few of us putting big stuff to the DropBox or whatever.
Thanks again.

 

[Beershaun]

Do you have a fiber optic gigabit option available where you live? My telephone provider, CenturyLink, provides my internet via fiber optic and I have 1000mbps upload and 1000mbps download. Real world speeds vary but it's effectively equal in both directions and I pay $85/month.

 

[sarumbear]

It's simply the way the cable DOCSIS standard was defined: the use case is content distribution, hence the "downstream" component is seen as more important. Most households don't need much upstream bandwidth. The thought there is tt if you need a lot of upstream capacity, you'd pick another offering - like fiber to your house etc.

Keep in mind that, while your Verizons/ATTs/Comcast/etc love to sell you a lot of downstream so that you *consume* 4k or even 8K video content etc, they don't necessarily see consumers as people that need to distribute a lot of content. They *make* a lot of money off the content providers that sell you said 4/8K content, since those need massive pipes to distribute their stuff, and their stuff *is* upstream from the network's perspective - with 100/400G peering and what not.

I am perfectly happy with my downstream 700M and upstream 30M. 30M is quite tolerable for me even though I often edit technology training videos and need to upload them to our company servers. More would be even better of course... :-D

PS: Keep in mind that Netflix 4K video consumes about 14Mbit/s, so with 30Mbit/s I could in theory distribute two 4K channels from my place... who would have thought that when we thought 56kbit/s modems were *awesome*... :-D

If you are instead receiving internet via the telephone line than your internet connection is an ADSL veraity. It’s short for Asymmetric Digital Subscriber Line. The clue is in the first word. Similar to DOCSIS transmission is skewed towards download.

This is why fibre connections are the way to go. They are symmetric and limited by the overall capacity of the ISP, not by your line as with the others.

 

[pablolie]

Thanks friends I get it now.
In my case, I'm buying a 510 mbps pipe package with is divided into 500&10 because that's what is most important to 99% of the customers. They need a big down pipe for video steams etc but very little need for much up.
Very few of us putting big stuff to the DropBox or whatever.
Thanks again.

By the way, a good cable technician can probably help you get higher than that (unless that's what your contract says). If you live in a more densely populated area, you'd be surprised at how many things, ranging from repeaters to attenuators, they patch things around with so that the distribution of bandwidth is "fair". I lived in a house for 10 years and as speeds kept getting higher I discovered all the little things they'd build (at times into the wall). Cable in the end mile is all about analog tech optimization - it is basically a bit like early generations of Ethernet with bandwidth sharing among everybody that sits on the same distribution hub, but they manage it with very analog tech at times: they'll plant an attenuator in your place if they think you're getting an unfairly good signal level (because with cable tech that allows you to hog more bandwidth compared to those with lower signal levels sharing the same pipe)... oh and the tech will *not* tell you that's what they did... at least not here. The problem is that if a different tech responds to a customer complaint close to you - they may remove *their* attenuator and then your neighbor will have the advantage over you in contention situations... dirty little cable tech secrets...

PS: When I moved to my new place after the divorce and the Xfinity tech came in, I told her I'd give her $100 in cash if she removed any attenuators in my new place. There were 2 of them hidden in innocuous looking wall sockets (it took 15 minutes). But of course they also have them at the local shared endpoint.

 

[tmtomh]

As others have said, part of this is just cable/DOCSIS vs fiber. Cable is always going to be asymmetrical in up vs down speeds. However, the technology does exist to increase cable upload speeds by a factor of at least 3x using existing infrastructure - Comcast just doesn't want to be bothered. It's a drag because 30mbps upload speeds instead of 10mbps would make a huge difference, whereas speeds beyond 30mbps upload would be nice but for most of us are not super important or essential when it comes to uploading.

I have Xfinity too (because the only internet provider I dislike more than Comcast is Verizon, and they're the fiber provider in my area). I just upgraded my modem from a DOCSIS 3.0 unit to a DOCSIS 3.1 unit, and my download and upload speeds have increased. My down speed has gone from about 220mbps to about 280-300, and my up speed has gone from about 6mbps to about 12. (And I always buy my own modem - pays for itself in about a year and I typically keep my modems for 3-5 years.)

 

[mglobe]

I live in the country, and there is no cable, no fiber. Your choices are line of site microwave, LTE, Dish, or Starlink. I‘ve tried microwave which was awful, then LTE, which got me 50 down 5 up. Recently T-Mobile got 5g out here, and I’m not getting 100+ down and 50+/- up. I’ve seen as high as 200 down, and typically the upload speeds are 1/2 to 1/3 of down. So it looks like 5g right now doesn’t have as bid a down/up bias. But if I could get a wired connection, I’d prefer it as even with 5g speeds vary a fair amount.

 

[pablolie]

Do you have a fiber optic gigabit option available where you live? My telephone provider, CenturyLink, provides my internet via fiber optic and I have 1000mbps upload and 1000mbps download. Real world speeds vary but it's effectively equal in both directions and I pay $85/month.

Comcast in my area offers 2G download speeds for supposedly 125 bucks... but then of course they never tell you about the real cost that you'll find on your bill exactly with other add ons. Even what I have right now (800/30) is kinda more than I need as a single household (my cat doesn't watch Netflix while I work :-D), but the pricing structure is completely non-linear: You pay something like 50 bucks for basic (which I think is around 50M), and 75 for what I have (which ends up being more like 90-ish on the bill), so it's the "why not?" effect, and also the fact I do benefit from the higher upload speeds given the work stuff I regularly do from my home office, uploading large files to our company's AMZ servers.

AT&T has Gig Fiber service close to my area, but not yet to my somewhat a tad more remote main weekday place, their highest there is 18M which is a disgrace :-D Might as well stay in my remote in the woods cabin, where I get about 3M via my smartphone (most of the time .

 

[Doodski]

the pricing structure is completely non-linear:

It's the same here in Canada with Shaw Cable a good ISP with the best rated service for gamers. They price the low speed plans above what they are worth and then for a few bucks more you get 500 down and 100 up and then for ~$10 more you get 1G down and 100 up. I went with the 500 down plan and asked for the 1G down plan for the same price and they said OK for 2 years contract. So I'm paying for 500 down but getting 1G down.

 

[sarumbear]

I find it difficult to understand how a super power who invented the telephone, networked equipment and the Internet is so much behind in public communication structures. Some will say it is because of the vast rural areas and long connections but communication quality is not limited to Internet. You still do not have an interconnected banking system, still use cheques and clearing houses. As a Brit who can send money around the country or the world in seconds, my mind boggles.

 

[Blumlein 88]

DOCIS doesn't reduce it so low as what you are reporting Sal. My guess is your cable company is doing this. 15 years ago I had 45 meg service with cable. It would do 45 meg down and 20 meg up. I was an early adopter. In time they dropped it to 45/15. Now the same area provides 300/10 (and often you don't get more than 5).

This became a problem for some people working from home. VPN's and doing lots of long downloads you do need some upload capacity to keep that going. So some people were complaining of speed issues yet testing their connection the down speed was great. Issue is the up speed was a choke point. My guess is 10 meg is what they are promising. You can check with them and if they promise more they can probably resolve the issue for you.

Now if you have the option of fiber optic without it being too dearly priced get that. Those are symmetrical on up and down speeds.