How to argue with people who believes "Digital Cable" make different? [sorry]

[lmaobrah]

TLDR; Please provide the link/studies/blind test/double blind test/ that digital cable makes no different (or if it makes different?)

Sorry I need to start this kind of thread, I don't normally argue "directly" with people who believe digital cable makes different because there's no point to do so.

But in this case, in a non audiophile community (Gaming) when people ask if expensive HDMI cable makes different. (Image & sound quality on same HDMI version)
There will be some audiophile people who use $300 HDMI cable provide info that it really makes the different, you don't know if you haven't tried them etc etc.

So please share the link/info/video/studies/blind test result to be used as reference.
Thank you.

 

[pozz]

There is a classic explanation for HDMI specifically:

Kurt Denke of Blue Jeans Cables

 

[magicscreen]

because there's no point to do so.

You are right because digital cables indeed make difference.
I have one USB cable which works perfectly.
And I have another one which randomly interrupts music.

 

[magicscreen]

blind test/double blind test/ that digital cable makes no different

Come on, you can make this blind test in a few minutes. Easy as pie!

blind test/double blind test/ that digital cable (or if it makes different?)

This is a good question! I have never seen a blind test on the internet which proved there is a difference between two DACs/amps/cables/etc.

 

[MattHooper]

This is a good question! I have never seen a blind test on the internet which proved there is a difference between two DACs/amps/cables/etc.

Not sure what exactly you'd count as "seeing a blind test on the internet" and mine may not count even if I gave the details. But FWIW, I've detailed here before some blind testing I did on two CDPs and a DAC where I very easily identified each under blind conditions. This was back in the late 90's.

 

[pozz]

@lmaobrah

Please go here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?pages/Audio_Equipment_Reviews/

Filter the hardware until you find the categories below. These are all the reviews Amir has done on digital cables and so forth.

A good review with a lot of explanation is this one: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...rements-of-empirical-audio-synchro-mesh.7062/

 

[RichB]

TLDR; Please provide the link/studies/blind test/double blind test/ that digital cable makes no different (or if it makes different?)

Sorry I need to start this kind of thread, I don't normally argue "directly" with people who believe digital cable makes different because there's no point to do so.

But in this case, in a non audiophile community (Gaming) when people ask if expensive HDMI cable makes different. (Image & sound quality on same HDMI version)
There will be some audiophile people who use $300 HDMI cable provide info that it really makes the different, you don't know if you haven't tried them etc etc.

So please share the link/info/video/studies/blind test result to be used as reference.
Thank you.

An HDMI cable syncs, works with ARC (assuming the source and sink work), has no freeze-ups, and no sparkles is a good cable.
Try not to argue on the internet, it does not make you a happier person.

Long ago, I decided not to argue with my wife, I wager instead: So how much do you want to bet? ...

- Rich

 

[jsrtheta]

Come on, you can make this blind test in a few minutes. Easy as pie!



This is a good question! I have never seen a blind test on the internet which proved there is a difference between two DACs/amps/cables/etc.

Here is the great granddaddy of ABX pages: http://djcarlst.provide.net/abx.htm

Plenty of differences found.

 

[solderdude]

HDMI cables are made for different 'classes' and are not all the same and always interchangeable.
Frequencies upto 340MHz (10.2Gbps) are possible but not always needed.
This depends on factors like bit depth of the video signal, resolution of the video signal, frame rate and number of audio channels and speed.
When you use a cable that is not designed for 4k video with high bitdepth and try to send those signals through it this will be problematic.
The other way around (lower resolution) over wide bandwidth cable then this is no problem.

See it like the max speed of car tires. When you want to drive 240km/h you should not fit tires that are spec'ed at 180km/h.

The specs of cables should be mentioned when buying these. Buy one that suits what you need.
When you just buy the cheapest one you can find you may not have bought the right cable.

HDMI is not the same as analog video, nor digital audio nor analog audio.
Shielding and construction of the 3 screened data channels and 1 clock channel in one HDMI cable matters at these frequencies.

 

[Jimbob54]

There is a classic explanation for HDMI specifically:

Kurt Denke of Blue Jeans Cables

What a refreshing presentation. Just telling it as it is.

 

[JohnYang1997]

Of course cables make difference. Different cables have different properties especially the digital cables. Different manufacturing requirements, different properties. You can't use a usb 2.0 cable and mod into a 3.0 cable. And USB 3.0 cables are vastly superior in quality than USB 2.0 cables. Same for HDMI cables, in the early days of HDMI, cables that are a little bit longer were suffering.

Adequate cables make adequate performance. Better than adequate cables won't improve(or very little) the performance further.

 

[dfuller]

Simple enough. Digital transmission either works or it doesn't, and saying otherwise is being ignorant of reality.

 

[JohnYang1997]

Simple enough. Digital transmission either works or it doesn't, and saying otherwise is being ignorant of reality.

no

 

[lmaobrah]

Hi,
Well to be more clear, we're talking about same technology/version.
For example, a $15 HDMI 2.0 cable vs a $400 gold plated HDMI 2.0 cable (probably with fancy shield if it matters).

 

[solderdude]

Simple enough. Digital transmission either works or it doesn't, and saying otherwise is being ignorant of reality.

I would say they work perfectly, or not perfectly (drop outs, ticks, noises) or not at all if you have a defective or completely unsuitable one.
The key is to use cables that are suited for the job they have to do.
With HDMI all chances you get a not suited cable are higher (at high res video) than with audio only.

Not all HDMI cables are suited for high res video. But high res video cables are suited for lesser quality.

 

[dfuller]

I would say they work perfectly, or not perfectly (drop outs, ticks, noises) or not at all if you have a defective or completely unsuitable one.

That's a better description, yes - but I'd consider a cable that works "not perfectly" to not work.

The key is to use cables that are suited for the job they have to do.

Yup, so... appropriate USB cable for USB connections, and so on.

With HDMI all chances you get a not suited cable are higher (at high res video) than with audio only. Not all HDMI cables are suited for high res video. But high res video cables are suited for lesser quality.

As long as it meets the consortium spec for whichever version of HDMI cable we're talking about, it doesn't matter. You're right of course that a standard or high speed HDMI cable is not suitable for 4K/60 but a "Premium High Speed" (18Gbps capable cable) is.

For example, a $15 HDMI 2.0 cable vs a $400 gold plated HDMI 2.0 cable (probably with fancy shield if it matters).

Any test done shows that it will either work for its intended purpose or will not. There's no in-betweens of "this one makes blacker blacks and more vivid colors", it's "it will support the intended framerate and resolution or it won't".

 

[Kaiede]

As long as it meets the consortium spec for whichever version of HDMI cable we're talking about, it doesn't matter. You're right of course that a standard or high speed HDMI cable is not suitable for 4K/60 but a "Premium High Speed" (18Gbps capable cable) is.

This is the annoying part of the whole thing. Because of the flood of cheap cables on places like Amazon, many aren’t well marked as to what speed they are rated for, or if they are rated at all.

And then you get edge cases like 1.4b handling 4:2:0 4K/60, but needing 2.0 for 4:2:2 or 4:4:4. Or the fact that older cables can sometimes hit newer data rates, but not all older cables can. It can be pretty hard for an average non-savvy person to understand what all is going on even when the cables are working as designed.