Finally, proof speaker cables can affect sound with sufficient difference to meet the audible threshold...

[Zapper]

This has been known for thirty years.

Effects of Cable Loudspeaker and Amplifier Interactions - Fred E. Davis

Reprise of the above paper in Audio magazine, July, 1993.



It has, at best, minimal effect if cabling of sufficient gauge is used over distances of ten to fifty feet.

Indeed. The paper has references, one dating back 70 years.

REFERENCES
Augsperger, “The Damping Factor Debate” (1967)
Floyd E. Toole in “Damping, Damping Factor and Damn Nonsense” (1975)
Richard Clarke “Damping Factor” (2000)”
D.J. Tomcik “Missing Link in Speaker Operation Parts 1 & 2” (1954)
Johnson I. Agbinya “Principles of Inductive Near Field Communications for Internet of Things” (2011)

 

[Zapper]

Even the best results they show drop above 10kHz and are down -3dB at 20kHz. I'm sure many people can hear that. And the shortest distance is 50m. So this doesn't give much insight in an audiophile context.

 

[DonR]

Might be of interest to a large cinema but certainly not for the home audiophile.

 

[Zapper]

2) The research was done with 70/100V commercial speakers

I think you misread it. It says low impedance systems.

Today’s professional sound installations such as sport facilities, theme parks and entertainment venues require sound quality, high sound pressure level and improved frequency bandwidth, which results in the specification of low impedance systems instead of public address systems based on 100 V / 70 V line speakers.

 

[Cbdb2]

I miss read that also. Now I wonder wtf there talking about. Every casino, including the huge (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parq_Vancouver), restaraunt, and sports bar I've been involved in installing sound systems used 70/100v systems. (except for the live performance stages) Not to is ridiculous.
That casino has over 200 100 watt speakers which would need 100 100 watt (stereo) amps for 8Ω speakers! Or 5 4000watt amps for a 70/100v system. (Labgroupen makes a 8800w 4 ch amps). Im guessing the first option is at least 10times the price. Not to mention the extra cost of 5 times the wire length, because you cant daisy chain 10 speakers (1000s of feet and 12 instead of 16 gauge.) And there are some very good 70/100v speakers out there.
Are they just trying to sell amps?

 

[Cbdb2]

Might be of interest to a large cinema but certainly not for the home audiophile.

Large cinemas have most speakers on there own channel so it makes sense for those.

 

[Zapper]

I miss read that also. Now I wonder wtf there talking about. Every casino, including the huge (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parq_Vancouver), restaraunt, and sports bar I've been involved in installing sound systems used 70/100v systems. (except for the live performance stages) Not to is ridiculous.
That casino has over 200 100 watt speakers which would need 100 100 watt (stereo) amps for 8Ω speakers! Or 5 4000watt amps for a 70/100v system. (Labgroupen makes a 8800w 4 ch amps). Im guessing the first option is at least 10times the price. Not to mention the extra cost of 5 times the wire length, because you cant daisy chain 10 speakers (1000s of feet and 12 instead of 16 gauge.) And there are some very good 70/100v speakers out there.
Are they just trying to sell amps?

I get your point. Although I would think the modern solution is self-powered speakers with class-D amps, and audio distributed digitally by AES3 or AES67.

 

[Cbdb2]

Your still buying 200 amps (just because there in the speaker dosnt mean your not paying for them) and even more expensive, you have to run power to 200 speakers, and power in these places is always armored or in conduit.

 

[Zapper]

100v speaker cables don't need conduits?

 

[Cbdb2]

Not here. Though sometimes conduit is run for ease of installation or protection, like thru concrete etc, similar to network cable. But you can't run power in the same conduit so for powered speakers if you need conduit you would need two conduits per speaker. There might be a new solution, using network cable for the digital audio with the higher power POE (power over ethernet) which can deliver 100 watts in the same cable. This still means a separate cable run to each speaker from the network switch instead of daisey chaining 20 speakers.The most economical is still a 70/100v system.

 

[Zapper]

Not here. Though sometimes conduit is run for ease of installation or protection, like thru concrete etc, similar to network cable. But you can't run power in the same conduit so for powered speakers if you need conduit you would need two conduits per speaker. There might be a new solution, using network cable for the digital audio with the higher power POE (power over ethernet) which can deliver 100 watts in the same cable. This still means a separate cable run to each speaker from the network switch instead of daisey chaining 20 speakers.The most economical is still a 70/100v system.

Thanks for the explanation.

 

[Descartes]

To solve these problems active speakers with voice over IP

 

[Prana Ferox]

(4) is the part that taught me the most [about myself]: despite being raised on an education of inches/feet before going into the sciences, I still have an easier time envisioning 150m than I do 220 washing machines lined up shoulder-to-shoulder.

I had no idea washing machines had shoulders

 

[DonR]

I had no idea washing machines had shoulders

They have feet.

 

[Drengur]

Power cables matter as well. I tried listening to some Mark Knopfler without them and I hardly heard anything!

 

[tmtomh]

Power cables matter as well. I tried listening to some Mark Knopfler without them and I hardly heard anything!

Same here - and what I heard without power cables didn't even sound like music. It sounded exactly like the ambient background noise of my listening space - weird.

 

[Julf]

But my wife came running from the kitchen, saying "what have you changed? I don't hear anything!".

 

[xray]

Power cables matter as well. I tried listening to some Mark Knopfler without them and I hardly heard anything!

Were you listening to Money for Nothing?

 

[WillBrink]

4) They were looking at distances as high as 150 meters in length! That's about 220 washing machines lined up shoulder to shoulder!

Is that not old news; long runs with thin wire are the only times there's a measurable difference audiophiles may want to care about?

 

[GXAlan]

Is that not old news; long runs with thin wire are the only times there's a measurable difference audiophiles may want to care about?

Very old news:

Speaker Wire

But look at

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There is a whole pre-owned luxury cable market where companies are willing to pay for cables because they know they can sell it back for a profit!