Home theater receiver options...everything seems to have compromises this year...thoughts? recommendations?

[6SpeedTA95]

Hello everyone. New guy here but long...LONGGGG time lurker. I've read hundreds of Amir's posts and posts from others over the years.
What prompted me to finally register has been the rather blah reviews by a host of new receivers. I had intended to buy a Denon 4800, 3800 or similar Marantz, now the Cinema 50 or 60.

However, after initial information from reviews here and a couple other places I'm now questioning whether buying something from the current crop of "Mainstream" receivers is a good idea. I'd like plenty of HDMI 2.1 inputs, while I'm not using it now with the exception of one port, when I buy an AVR I keep it for a long time so future proofing is important. My current receiver is a Denon 4200 which I bought new back in 2015. It sounds pretty good and keeps up with my system ok.

My current setup is the Denon 4200 AVR, and a Parasound Halo 2 ch amplifier for my two main channels. My speakers are primarily Dynaudio, the mains and center are a 4ohm load, the side channels also Dyns are a 6ohm load.

The rears, a recent addition are Klipsch. Yes I'm aware they aren't tonally matched but thankfully there's not a ton of traffic on those back two channels.

My sub is a single (for now) Rythmik FV15HP.

It seems AVRs from Denon are a step back this year. The Onkyo is RZ50 also not a go. Yamaha YPAO is pretty blah and in real tests they seem to be middle of the road for the money.

I'm wondering if I shouldn't just sit tight for awhile? I'd be willing to look at things like Arcam and Anthem but those seem to get similar mixed/blah reviews from folks who actually take measurements. We do listen at reference levels some and knowing that my Dyn's are a bit harder to drive vs something like a Klipsch I do take the amp section on the AVR more seriously than others might. While it certainly doesn't have to be pristine, I'd like it to be quite good. The system gets a mixture of movies, blu ray concerts, lossless music, TV shows, music videos with the kids on YT. It also gets a lot of use. All of our sources are 4k at this point.

I'd like to know if I'm missing anything on the AVR front, integrated has benefits (WAF) but could rip the bandaid off and probably go separates but I've not really found a processor that seems great for reasonable $ either.

I'm really just at a loss unless the Cinema C50 and/or 60 happen to test really well. Marantz also has a history of coloring the sound a bit, making it warmer which I'm not fond of.

With DIRAC moving down market...finally...maybe I should give things another year and perhaps an NAD, Arcam or Anthem will have an AVR that's worth buying? Help? Thoughts?

 

[OldHvyMec]

Better yet buy separates and upgrade the gear as you like. Start with a well thought out preamp with all the goodies you will use. Not what you want!

I like a AVP with great reviews and a long listen for music. They will have the most to offer and a long time between changes or failures.

Sorry to say 3-5 years is a push for most of the equipment called an "AVR". Failure rates are high vs separates. I do have and HK AVR 7.1 75wpc that was
still working 10 years ago and a Denon that was never used, I guess it works. The only failures I have have had were self inflicted (a cable drop) or tube
fires. I love um!!! The wife she gets excited, but she likes fireworks too.

 

[Chrispy]

Depends what you want from a new avr. What do you mean they're a step back this year?

 

[MLaranjeiras]

Hello everyone. New guy here but long...LONGGGG time lurker. I've read hundreds of Amir's posts and posts from others over the years.
What prompted me to finally register has been the rather blah reviews by a host of new receivers. I had intended to buy a Denon 4800, 3800 or similar Marantz, now the Cinema 50 or 60.

However, after initial information from reviews here and a couple other places I'm now questioning whether buying something from the current crop of "Mainstream" receivers is a good idea. I'd like plenty of HDMI 2.1 inputs, while I'm not using it now with the exception of one port, when I buy an AVR I keep it for a long time so future proofing is important. My current receiver is a Denon 4200 which I bought new back in 2015. It sounds pretty good and keeps up with my system ok.

My current setup is the Denon 4200 AVR, and a Parasound Halo 2 ch amplifier for my two main channels. My speakers are primarily Dynaudio, the mains and center are a 4ohm load, the side channels also Dyns are a 6ohm load.

The rears, a recent addition are Klipsch. Yes I'm aware they aren't tonally matched but thankfully there's not a ton of traffic on those back two channels.

My sub is a single (for now) Rythmik FV15HP.

It seems AVRs from Denon are a step back this year. The Onkyo is RZ50 also not a go. Yamaha YPAO is pretty blah and in real tests they seem to be middle of the road for the money.

I'm wondering if I shouldn't just sit tight for awhile? I'd be willing to look at things like Arcam and Anthem but those seem to get similar mixed/blah reviews from folks who actually take measurements. We do listen at reference levels some and knowing that my Dyn's are a bit harder to drive vs something like a Klipsch I do take the amp section on the AVR more seriously than others might. While it certainly doesn't have to be pristine, I'd like it to be quite good. The system gets a mixture of movies, blu ray concerts, lossless music, TV shows, music videos with the kids on YT. It also gets a lot of use. All of our sources are 4k at this point.

I'd like to know if I'm missing anything on the AVR front, integrated has benefits (WAF) but could rip the bandaid off and probably go separates but I've not really found a processor that seems great for reasonable $ either.

I'm really just at a loss unless the Cinema C50 and/or 60 happen to test really well. Marantz also has a history of coloring the sound a bit, making it warmer which I'm not fond of.

With DIRAC moving down market...finally...maybe I should give things another year and perhaps an NAD, Arcam or Anthem will have an AVR that's worth buying? Help? Thoughts?

For sure, having A Denon AVR-X4200W IN-Command, I do not think in AV receiver changes. Save the money for a good Oled TV. If you the sound of the Parasound Halo 2 for music, I do not se a reason for spending money on this front. Sometimes we are already happy and do not realize. I say this because in Brazil, video streaming services in almost all the cases send us only a paleozoic 5.1 DD+. I do not see any new event that justify AV receivers changes, once the video sources more and more come from the TV. A NVidia Shield maybe, I said maybe, add something. MIne I sold.

 

[dlaloum]

I use an Integra (Onkyo) DRX 3.4 - it was my compromise, given I did not believe that the RZ50, or the Denon equivalent(s) would handle my speakers properly, and it has sufficient channels and the processing I need to run my room, in conjunction with external amps for the main speakers.

The result has been an excellent upgrade to previous generations - mostly due to Dirac Live. - as expected, the inbuilt power amps did NOT do well with my 4 ohm (with 1.6ohm dip) speakers, but comparing the old AVR (165W powerhouse into 8ohm), with the new using external amps, the system sounded identical... (as it should when amps run within their design envelope!) - activating Dirac Live, showed a substantial improvement over my previous Audyssey XT32... so I am very happy with the result.

The DRX3.4 was quite economical (specially in pre-order... prices have since risen!) - and at current pricing, I would probably grab the RZ50.

If your X4200 supports the Audyssey tuning apps... and has the functions and features you want otherwise, I would not bother updating, as you may end up with a step sideways rather than a step up.

The Denon/Marantz range have become more expensive - without adding additional performance (and in some cases degrading) over previous generations
The Onkyo/Pioneer/Integra AVR's have a suspect power amps section - especially if you have 4 ohm speakers - but make excellent prepro's, mated with external power amps... and the internal amps can drive surround and heights without an issue (so there is some value to getting an AVR still!)

Onkyo are long overdue (more than a year) to release their flagship models - and those might be interesting... (interviews with their designers seem to indicate that the hardware is ready, and that delays are now marketing or supply logistics related)

Dirac Live -Active Room Treatment could be a game changer - but is being released initially only on Storm Audio Prepro's.... so only an option if your budget can reach that high.
It will be available to other manufacturers in Q4.... so I expect it will appear on JBL/Arcam, NAD, Denon/Marantz, Onkyo/Pioneer/Integra, etc..... (all the Dirac aligned brands) - late this year.... at which point I am hoping it will be available on mass market hardware, at more reasonable prices... (could be wishful thinking on my part... but I would not have jumped into the market if my previous AVR had not gone belly up... I would have waited for the next generation)

 

[6SpeedTA95]

For sure, having A Denon AVR-X4200W IN-Command, I do not think in AV receiver changes. Save the money for a good Oled TV. If you the sound of the Parasound Halo 2 for music, I do not se a reason for spending money on this front. Sometimes we are already happy and do not realize. I say this because in Brazil, video streaming services in almost all the cases send us only a paleozoic 5.1 DD+. I do not see any new event that justify AV receivers changes, once the video sources more and more come from the TV. A NVidia Shield maybe, I said maybe, add something. MIne I sold.

I have a 77inch Sony OLED. It’s great.

 

[6SpeedTA95]

I use an Integra (Onkyo) DRX 3.4 - it was my compromise, given I did not believe that the RZ50, or the Denon equivalent(s) would handle my speakers properly, and it has sufficient channels and the processing I need to run my room, in conjunction with external amps for the main speakers.

The result has been an excellent upgrade to previous generations - mostly due to Dirac Live. - as expected, the inbuilt power amps did NOT do well with my 4 ohm (with 1.6ohm dip) speakers, but comparing the old AVR (165W powerhouse into 8ohm), with the new using external amps, the system sounded identical... (as it should when amps run within their design envelope!) - activating Dirac Live, showed a substantial improvement over my previous Audyssey XT32... so I am very happy with the result.

The DRX3.4 was quite economical (specially in pre-order... prices have since risen!) - and at current pricing, I would probably grab the RZ50.

If your X4200 supports the Audyssey tuning apps... and has the functions and features you want otherwise, I would not bother updating, as you may end up with a step sideways rather than a step up.

The Denon/Marantz range have become more expensive - without adding additional performance (and in some cases degrading) over previous generations
The Onkyo/Pioneer/Integra AVR's have a suspect power amps section - especially if you have 4 ohm speakers - but make excellent prepro's, mated with external power amps... and the internal amps can drive surround and heights without an issue (so there is some value to getting an AVR still!)

Onkyo are long overdue (more than a year) to release their flagship models - and those might be interesting... (interviews with their designers seem to indicate that the hardware is ready, and that delays are now marketing or supply logistics related)

Dirac Live -Active Room Treatment could be a game changer - but is being released initially only on Storm Audio Prepro's.... so only an option if your budget can reach that high.
It will be available to other manufacturers in Q4.... so I expect it will appear on JBL/Arcam, NAD, Denon/Marantz, Onkyo/Pioneer/Integra, etc..... (all the Dirac aligned brands) - late this year.... at which point I am hoping it will be available on mass market hardware, at more reasonable prices... (could be wishful thinking on my part... but I would not have jumped into the market if my previous AVR had not gone belly up... I would have waited for the next generation)

It sure seems like everything this year is just blah. I don't really have a desire to step sideways. I can wait for Dirac to become more common or maybe for something to test decent in the sub 3k range even if that takes another year or two. If I get too bored I can go separates I guess.

 

[Rednaxela]

If your X4200 supports the Audyssey tuning apps...

It doesn’t. Only X4300 and later.

Switching to one (second hand) might actually be a sensible option.

 

[FriedChicken]

I must be the king of old. Pioneer Kuro 9th gen hooked up to a Yamaha CX-A5000, hooked up to a Sony STR-DB930 from 1993 and a Yamaha M65 from 1980-something into Polk Audio RTi10 fronts and RTiA center and surrounds.

I've foregone 3D, 4k, HDR, Dolby Vision, DTS:X, and Dobly Atmos. Are these worth having?

 

[Sal1950]

I've foregone 3D, 4k, HDR, Dolby Vision, DTS:X, and Dobly Atmos. Are these worth having?

The only one I found important was Atmos
It's a game changer in immersive sound presentation.
Well worth the cost and effort IMHO
DTS-X Where's the source material? I don't have any.
The rest are video stuff and of minor importance to me.
But that's me ?

 

[FriedChicken]

The only one I found important was Atmos
It's a game changer in immersive sound presentation.
Well worth the cost and effort IMHO
DTS-X Where's the source material? I don't have any.
The rest are video stuff and of minor importance to me.
But that's me ?

Are there different versions of atmos? I'm considering an RX-A3040 which is the first yamaha receiver to have atmos support (with a firmware upgrade). Is there any reason to get a later generation of atmos?

 

[MLaranjeiras]

Are there different versions of atmos? I'm considering an RX-A3040 which is the first yamaha receiver to have atmos support (with a firmware upgrade). Is there any reason to get a later generation of atmos?

Not that I know. On my Pioneer VSX LX 503 AV Receiver, I use a little amplifier to the surround back channels and a better amplifier to the front channels

 

[ban25]

Are there different versions of atmos? I'm considering an RX-A3040 which is the first yamaha receiver to have atmos support (with a firmware upgrade). Is there any reason to get a later generation of atmos?

There are technically 3 versions IIRC, based on DD+ / TrueHD / Dolby MAT. Lossless Atmos, which you find on 4K Blu-rays, requires HDMI 2.1. Older AVRs may only support the lossy compressed versions, which is the best you can get over streaming (Netflix, HBO Max, etc.), so that may be just fine for you depending upon content.

 

[FriedChicken]

There are technically 3 versions IIRC, based on DD+ / TrueHD / Dolby MAT. Lossless Atmos, which you find on 4K Blu-rays, requires HDMI 2.1. Older AVRs may only support the lossy compressed versions, which is the best you can get over streaming (Netflix, HBO Max, etc.), so that may be just fine for you depending upon content.

There's very little information about this

 

[Sal1950]

Are there different versions of atmos?

There are technically 3 versions IIRC, based on DD+ / TrueHD / Dolby MAT. Lossless Atmos, which you find on 4K Blu-rays, requires HDMI 2.1. Older AVRs may only support the lossy compressed versions, which is the best you can get over streaming (Netflix, HBO Max, etc.), so that may be just fine for you depending upon content.

That's on the supply side.
I'm not aware of any receivers not capable of correctly decoding the various compression systems.
But I could be wrong.

 

[ban25]

That's on the supply side.
I'm not aware of any receivers not capable of correctly decoding the various compression systems.
But I could be wrong.

Yeah I'm not sure if it's required or if the source will send a DD+ compressed stream instead. I did find this:

Does HDMI ARC/eARC Support Dolby Atmos? - Homeowner.com

Easily get Dolby Atmos with HDMI ARC! Explore support details with Dolby Digital Plus, check TV compatibility and test for Dolby Atmos sound.

thehometheaterdiy.com

There is a difference between these two, and only one is supported by ARC standard. Dolby Digital Plus, for example, is supported by ARC standard but does compress the audio through lossy format, and not lossless. Dolby TrueHD, on the other hand, is lossless but is not supported by HDMI ARC (but is supported by HDMI eARC).

 

[Sal1950]

Yeah I'm not sure if it's required or if the source will send a DD+ compressed stream instead. I did find this:

What audiophile worth his DAC would use a TV and ARC as the source for high
quality Atmos delivery ?

 

[chelgrian]

There are technically 3 versions IIRC, based on DD+ / TrueHD / Dolby MAT. Lossless Atmos, which you find on 4K Blu-rays, requires HDMI 2.1. Older AVRs may only support the lossy compressed versions, which is the best you can get over streaming (Netflix, HBO Max, etc.), so that may be just fine for you depending upon content.

Atmos from Blu-ray does not require HDMI 2.1 it's doable from HDMI 1.4 onwards.

TrueHD is usually encoded in to MAT for transmission across HDMI and must be encoded in to MAT to transmit Atmos, it's optional for Dolby Digital Plus if it's sent directly or encoded in to MAT.

Without Atmos it's just as valid to decode TrueHD in to LPCM8 inside the player and transmit that over HDMI however Dolby have successfully pressurised manufacturers, probably by making it cost more money, to remove this functionality and always encode to MAT. On all but the top end players the only PCM available is a 2 channel downmix.

 

[Carlton80@0]

AVR’S will always be a compromis. Especially to one’s pocket.

 

[Chrispy]

AVR’S will always be a compromis. Especially to one’s pocket.

That would depend on use, often other gear is a compromise as well. If you just don't like avrs, don't use one.