Home theater receiver options...everything seems to have compromises this year...thoughts? recommendations?

[Sal1950]

Denon pre-pro? Missing magic Marantz warmth?

Denon X4700H receiver used with full outboard power amps.
I'll be 100% honest with you, I just can't fall in love having a product with pure Asian roots.
I didn't think it would bother me this bad but it is..
When I can put a Marantz on the shelf I'll be happy.
Nut's, I know.

 

[Chrispy]

Denon X4700H receiver used with full outboard power amps.
I'll be 100% honest with you, I just can't fall in love having a product with pure Asian roots.
I didn't think it would bother me this bad but it is..
When I can put a Marantz on the shelf I'll be happy.
Nut's, I know.

Marantz now is as asian as it gets, hasn't been US made in what almost 50 years since Superscope moved production to Japan....let alone all the different owners and technologies since. Just not a consideration for me but am fine with Denon in any case....last Marantz I had in the 70s was ok but flawed.

 

[Sal1950]

Marantz now is as asian as it gets, hasn't been US made in what almost 50 years since Superscope moved production to Japan....let alone all the different owners and technologies since. Just not a consideration for me but am fine with Denon in any case....last Marantz I had in the 70s was ok but flawed.

Actually until this most recent sale , Sound United could most accurately been described as a US corp.
Like I said, yes nuts, but I also will never forget Dec 7th 1941, a date which will live in infamy.
Forgive but never forget.

Meet my father, he fought the Japanese as an infantry rifleman for 4 long bloody years with the Americal division
pushing them back across all the pacific islands until finally being part of the mainland occupation forces.

Back row, second from right

 

[dlaloum]

Only matters if you're constantly selling your gear? The real value is in the enjoyment you get from using them, and I far more enjoy my multich setups than my one remaining 2ch setup....

I have been forced into updates twice now, due to overheating internals releasing the magic smoke....

I now pay substantial attention to the temperature at which AVR's run.... very happy with how cool my latest generation integra runs at....

(and am still trying to source a replacement DSP board for my old AVR.... sigh)

 

[Chrispy]

I have been forced into updates twice now, due to overheating internals releasing the magic smoke....

I now pay substantial attention to the temperature at which AVR's run.... very happy with how cool my latest generation integra runs at....

(and am still trying to source a replacement DSP board for my old AVR.... sigh)

Disabling updates is easy and something I do until I know what might be addressed. YMMV.

I've used external cooling for a while but my avrs are in somewhat limited spaces as well. Expecting boards to be available more than a few years....what else is new in consumer electronics?

 

[Sal1950]

Disabling updates is easy and something I do until I know what might be addressed. YMMV.

I think he was referring to "forced to buy a new one" when the old one let the smoke out.

I now pay substantial attention to the temperature at which AVR's run.... very happy with how cool my latest generation integra runs at....

Here's what I'm doing currently, a Noctua NF-A20 PWM, Premium Quiet Fan, 4-Pin (200x30mm, Brown)
Just plug it into any USB port and use the supplied quieting resistor inline
Dead quiet at the listening chair.

 

[dlaloum]

Disabling updates is easy and something I do until I know what might be addressed. YMMV.

I've used external cooling for a while but my avrs are in somewhat limited spaces as well. Expecting boards to be available more than a few years....what else is new in consumer electronics?

Just to be clear - I meant being forced into replacing the entire AVR... first time due to overheating HDMI board with bad caps (was quoted a price lose to the purchase price of the replacement equivalent to replace/fix that board!) - and its replacement suffered from a (known) manufacturing fault causing the dsp chip to warp due to heat over time.... it did not fail within the much extended warranty replacement period Onkyo/Integra provided.... lucky me... now the 2nd AVR is a boat anchor - both due to excess heat, with other underlying issues (bad caps for the first, bad DSP chip in the 2nd... both would have survived it if they weren't running far too hot for long term survival)

The current Integra runs slightly warm to the touch.... that is a huge difference from its predecessor cousins from 2008 and 2014, however, I think it likely that I will replace it well before it approaches it's potential lifetime, as I believe Dirac ART will give me a worthwhile upgrade.... and I would be very surprised to see them release the option of such an upgrade for my Integra DRX 3.4.... so my expectation is that sometime in the next 2 to 3 years I will replace it with a DL-ART capable AVR (or competitive equivalent) - but I would expect the new AVR, to run as cool as my current one.... so I can eke AT LEAST 10 years out of it, and preferably 15!!

 

[dlaloum]

I think he was referring to "forced to buy a new one" when the old one let the smoke out.


Here's what I'm doing currently, a Noctua NF-A20 PWM, Premium Quiet Fan, 4-Pin (200x30mm, Brown)
Just plug it into any USB port and use the supplied quieting resististor inline
Dead quiet at the listening chair.

View attachment 260244

Nice - I'm a big fan of the Noctua's and have been using them in my PC builds for years....

But not in my latest one - which is a completely fanless build, using a heatsink case, with heatpipes connecting to the side heatsinks...

I would prefer to have passively cooled piece of kit if it is at all possible - with fans present only as a failsafe, and not operating under 99% of circumstances.... passive stays relatively dust free.... (and dust acts as a nice warm blanket, with the device getting warmer as the dust builds up!) - as well as being truly silent (in theory...)

The Integra I am running seems to almost never turn on its internal fan, so I am happy with that

 

[Sal1950]

I would prefer to have passively cooled piece of kit if it is at all possible - with fans present only as a failsafe, and not operating under 99% of circumstances.... passive stays relatively dust free.... (and dust acts as a nice warm blanket, with the device getting warmer as the dust builds up!) - as well as being truly silent (in theory...)

Me too,
BTW I have the fan blowing up, AVR remains ice cold.

I still need to build that new server PC since my last one blew up with the Marantz 7703 lightning strike.
Been combing various sources trying to decide firstly on the mother board.
Haven't done this in 16 years and it makes my head hurt. LOL

 

[Holdt]

I must be the king of old. Pioneer Kuro 9th gen hooked up to a Yamaha CX-A5000, hooked up to a Sony STR-DB930 from 1993 and a Yamaha M65 from 1980-something into Polk Audio RTi10 fronts and RTiA center and surrounds.

I've foregone 3D, 4k, HDR, Dolby Vision, DTS:X, and Dobly Atmos. Are these worth having?

No, it does certainly not look like it's worth having. -For you. I understand you. I think DTS 5.1 and DD 5.1 was great sounding on my system when I had surround. I just recently sold my old Panasonic plasma but only because it was good economy due to the high electricity prices. I don't really think my new 4K has a much better picture. It's much sharper due to resolution but I liked the colour on the plasma better. Especially shadows and blacks. And the new TV is not a bad one either.

 

[FriedChicken]

No, it does certainly not look like it's worth having. -For you. I understand you. I think DTS 5.1 and DD 5.1 was great sounding on my system when I had surround. I just recently sold my old Panasonic plasma but only because it was good economy due to the high electricity prices. I don't really think my new 4K has a much better picture. It's much sharper due to resolution but I liked the colour on the plasma better. Especially shadows and blacks. And the new TV is not a bad one either.

this gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling about the Kuro.

DTS-HD and especially TrueHD sound noticeably better than regular DD and DTS. Im very curious and intrigued by Atmos, and the AVR I’ve been looking at, the rx-a3040 supports Atmos but not DTS:X.

 

[Vacceo]

Me too,
BTW I have the fan blowing up, AVR remains ice cold.

I still need to build that new server PC since my last one blew up with the Marantz 7703 lightning strike.
Been combing various sources trying to decide firstly on the mother board.
Haven't done this in 16 years and it makes my head hurt. LOL

Add RGB. It improves SINAD.

 

[dlaloum]

One thing to watch out for - for those sitting fans/cooling units on top of their AVR...

About 10 years ago I purchased an AV cooling unit, it was by either asus or acer (cannot remember at the moment - one of those PC/Laptop makers) - similar format to the AC Infinity rear blower type setups.

Seemed to work OK - although it worked best at low speed otherwise it could get audible.

During a spate of measurement, I indentified some noise in my AVR, and after a bunch of experimentation, tracked it down to the fans....

Not sure whether the noise was travelling over the power line, or whether it was direct interference, given the proximity of the fans to the main HDMI input board at the top of the chassis - but either way... I ended up getting rid of it.... (and a couple of years later suffering from a fried HDMI board).

Fans on top of sensitive signal carrying circuits can be a mixed blessing!

 

[FriedChicken]

One thing to watch out for - for those sitting fans/cooling units on top of their AVR...

About 10 years ago I purchased an AV cooling unit, it was by either asus or acer (cannot remember at the moment - one of those PC/Laptop makers) - similar format to the AC Infinity rear blower type setups.

Seemed to work OK - although it worked best at low speed otherwise it could get audible.

During a spate of measurement, I indentified some noise in my AVR, and after a bunch of experimentation, tracked it down to the fans....

Not sure whether the noise was travelling over the power line, or whether it was direct interference, given the proximity of the fans to the main HDMI input board at the top of the chassis - but either way... I ended up getting rid of it.... (and a couple of years later suffering from a fried HDMI board).

Fans on top of sensitive signal carrying circuits can be a mixed blessing!

I noticed this when I tried sticking a fan next to my cable modem.

Poor design IMO. If something needs shielding like that, includle the goddamn shielding.

 

[Sal1950]

Fans on top of sensitive signal carrying circuits can be a mixed blessing!

True,
I haven't done any measurements but by ear I can't hear any interference coming thru
the speakers with my ear pressed against them and the volume up. I'm sure fan quality
can be a big issue, I wouldn't try to use some $2.95 ebay specials. LOL

 

[Vacceo]

When the note showed up this morning, I couldn't help thinking about @Sal1950 Turbo expensive US audio manufacturer alternative treat for a Marantz fan: https://www.mcintoshlabs.com/products/home-theater-processors/MHT300

 

[Gigicoltz]

Okay something people need to understand is Amir is measuring for engineering excellence. He is deliberately setting his bar very high over what others even good testers are doing.

But he has mentioned it before himself in his reviews a lot of his results are not AUDIBLE. Doesn't make his results not relevant but they are not audible.

If buyers are basing they're decisions to not buy something off of his very high measuring standards then they are not fully understanding the point of his tests. Which is again "engineering excellence" and also making sure companies products can do what the companies products say they can do "accountability".

Yes he didn't recommend the Denon X3800H over last years X3700H. Because he was holding them accountable for a decrease in performance compared to last years product while the company raised the price. That was fair. But the drop in performance is not AUDIBLE and in a double blind test you will hear ZERO difference between the 2 recievers.

Amir and most of us get this. So if the 2 recievers sound the same then what are you getting with the X3800H. 4 sub outs a first among AVR's. That's huge. And your choice between Dirac and Audyssey 2 room corrections in one unit. That's HUGE. No one has never done that before. Given you 2 room eqs to pick from in one unit.

To not buy some of these units due to high testing standards that Amir is deliberately setting high to push these companies accountability but that are not audible is not wise.

If we are waiting for the perfect scoring AVR before we buy you are going to be waiting a long time. Every company has to make choices to hit the bottom line. And no company is going to design such a product because they don't have to. Because what they already bring to the consumer is inaudible. And they know this. So they are going to cut costs to maximize profit.

So my thoughts are to use the measurements as a starting point pick the best gear that does what you want it to and that you are comfortable with the compromise the companies had to make between performance and profit.

If you're waiting for the perfect review to get you to buy. If your going buy the numbers alone with AVR's and pre pro's I'm afraid all of us would never end up buying anything because none of them measure well enough. But thank God they don't have too if what we are measuring is not audible.

Good luck with your purchase hope you pick something you'll be happy with for a long time!

What is the best choice between 6700h and 4800h in terms o real quality of sound? I have read long debates regarding several versions of 6700h, I have not yet found a review on this forum about 4800h, but from your knowledge and experience, what would be the firm recommendation?

 

[dlaloum]

What is the best choice between 6700h and 4800h in terms o real quality of sound? I have read long debates regarding several versions of 6700h, I have not yet found a review on this forum about 4800h, but from your knowledge and experience, what would be the firm recommendation?

You probably couldn't tell them appart sonically - even more so with the 4800 than the 4700, as the 4800 has adopted the same power amp architecture as the 6700 used.

Pick between them based on features... sonically there should be no obvious difference.

 

[Sal1950]

What is the best choice between 6700h and 4800h in terms o real quality of sound? I have read long debates regarding several versions of 6700h, I have not yet found a review on this forum about 4800h, but from your knowledge and experience, what would be the firm recommendation?

Agreed, ^ you won't hear any difference between them.

 

[danzilla31]

What is the best choice between 6700h and 4800h in terms o real quality of sound? I have read long debates regarding several versions of 6700h, I have not yet found a review on this forum about 4800h, but from your knowledge and experience, what would be the firm recommendation?

Sorry I'm late replying works been busy. I agree with our last 2 members both units will sound identical. So it will come down to which unit gives you all the features you need for your usage. If its the 4800 then it's a win win you get what you needed and you save some money!