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Simplest 2.0 to 3.0 setup I could do?

Joined
May 28, 2024
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Hello everybody...

I'm planning to add an AVR and a vocal (for a start) to my setup so I need your help but first I've got another question...

Something very strange and unexpected (to me) happened: when I upgraded my 2.0 setup and started watching TV while directing sound to the 2.0 stereo setup, suddenly the dialogues were way clearer than they used to. By "way clearer" I mean: wife, kid and I all noticed it. It's simply way easier to understand what people are saying the movies/series than it used to.

Now I thought I'd have to move to a real AVR and "home cinema" speakers setup to get any benefit but I already got great improvement by "just" buying a new stereo amp / new speakers.

What I had before weren't bad speakers: Dali Zensor 7 hooked to a Cambridge Audio Azur 640A stereo amp and Cambridge Audio DacMagic 100 DAC. I used that for years.

Now I upgraded a few months ago to these beauties:

audioSpeakersDALIepicon6gandalfCloseUp.jpg


DALI Epicon 6 speakers (original owner had them at 30% off and used them one year then sold them 1 K EUR less than what he paid them, so I got a sweet sweet deal) and a stereo Yamaha R-N1000A amp (probably a bit underpriced compared to the speakers but it's a darn fine amp).

That amp and the LG TV both have ARC (not sure e-ARC or not: haven't checked yet) but I don't even configure that yet: I'm simply using a good old TOSLink cable as if the eighties called and wanted their optical fiber connector back. And it Just Works! [TM]

And that's my big surprise which I really didn't expect: voices in movies and series (be it streamed from my own Plex server or from Netflix) sound much better than on either my old stereo setup (Dali Zensor 7) or on the LG TV's internal speaker. It's not me: everyone at home noticed voices are cleaner than in our previous setup.

Why? Why is it that for the first time ever I'm experiencing great actor voices although it's only a stereo setup? I didn't expect that. I'm really curious as to what the explanation to that is. Is it because they're good speakers? Is it because of the amp? Both?

Anyway... Where do I go from here to reuse my Epicon 6 stereo speakers as left/right in a 3.0 setup? (which I may, later on, expand to more speakers but I want to start with a 3.0 setup)

I don't know anything about it: what'd need to be wired to where? I don't want to buy pricey stuff: I've already got a good enough to me stereo amp and I definitely want to reuse these speakers in the 3.0 setup.

As I'm a die-hard DALI fan, I'm definitely buying some DALI vocal speaker (I don't know which model yet but not the Epicon vokal which is find fugly). No preference about the AVR but I need something which allows to be paired with the stereo Yamaha R-N1000A.

What should I be looking for here to add an AVR to do a 3.0 while yet keeping my 2.0 stereo for music? Is it doable (does the R-N1000A have the required input?) I'd say I could just keep using it in a 2.0 setup with that stereo amp but I take it it's going to be even better with an AVR and a real vocal speaker?

(btw I'm music first, home cinema a very distant second so I'm not as picky for the AVR/vocal as with the stereo speakers)

Any help / explanation of what needs to be done is much welcome as I'm a noob for AVR/home cinema.
 
I'm really curious as to what the explanation to that is. Is it because they're good speakers? Is it because of the amp? Both?
99-100% of this is going to be due to the speakers.

I found some measurements of the Zensor 1 which I assume has something to do with the Zensor 7 - there are some issues in the midrange that could impair vocal intelligibility.

A good stereo pair can handle dialogue as well as music. A center channel can help but isn't necessarily a requirement, especially if you are already happy with the sound already.

What should I be looking for here to add an AVR to do a 3.0 while yet keeping my 2.0 stereo for music?
You need an AVR with pre-outs / line-level outputs to send to the Yamaha amp if you would like to keep that. But most AVRs have a stereo mode, so once you get that set up you could just use that.
 
You need an AVR with pre-outs / line-level outputs to send to the Yamaha amp if you would like to keep that. But most AVRs have a stereo mode, so once you get that set up you could just use that.

Ah I see. But then I already have the stereo amp anyway, so I might as well keep it too. Do most AVRs have pre-outs / line-level outputs? Do I need both pre-outs / line-level outs or are these two different names for the same thing?
 
Unless there are many people, which I count 3 so far…
A 2.0, 4.xx, and 6.xx can sound pretty good.

I would be considering adding a sub before adding a centre channel, unless you have people sitting a way off axis. Or just like Ling it the way that it is.

But there is no wrong answer, other than having ‘any old centre’ will not likely work as well as better L/R or a better centre combined with the good 2 L/R channel speakers.


Another way to put is:
  1. What is it not doing that you what it to do
  2. What are the deficiencies?
  3. Where is it lacking?
  4. What do you want improved?
  5. What problem are you trying to solve?
 
Do most AVRs have pre-outs / line-level outputs? Do I need both pre-outs / line-level outs or are these two different names for the same thing?
I haven't shopped for an AVR recently but I think they're pretty common, not universal.

Pre-out and line-out are not the same thing, line outs will have a fixed volume and pre-out will follow the volume control on the AVR, I think. But they can both work for connecting to an external amp. Most likely if you have an unamplified output for each channel it would be pre-outs, but like I said I haven't shopped for one in a while, AVRs are not my area of expertise.
 
… Do most AVRs have pre-outs / line-level outputs? Do I need both pre-outs / line-level outs or are these two different names for the same thing?
The AVRs with amplifiers are called AVP (P for processor).
Usually those AVPs are more common to have XLRs.

This can get important if you 2 channel is XL based, and when the preamp has a “Pass though” then it does not need to be powered on to “pass the TV signal from the AVP through to the amps.

With RCAs and a stereo receiver, you need to power it on.

Hence if it sounds nice now, then maybe enjoy it as is and don’t be in too much of a rush while you figure out what to do??
 
If you have very good mains (like yours) you will not improve anything with a center, as this speaker will in almost any case be worse in reproduction than your floor standers. Any decend AVR can deal with such a set-up.
I have 3 identical front speaker, it is hard to tell with music if I use them without the center. Voices will still be in the correct position even when the one in the middle is missing. Only if you leave the main listening position, the center is missing. Also, maximum SPL is reduced a bit.
The Denon AVC-X3800H would be a good match for you. Connect the Yamaha to the L&R pre-out, set it's level once and you are fine.
 
Thanks a lot to everybody for your explanation. Things are clearer now. I think I'll indeed follow your advice and wait a bit and enjoy my setup as it is now!
 
Thanks a lot to everybody for your explanation. Things are clearer now. I think I'll indeed follow your advice and wait a bit and enjoy my setup as it is now!
That's always a good outcome!

I would add in passing that if you have space for subs, even if your mains have good bass, a sub (or ideally 2+) can really improve the sound.

You've probably seen some stuff about room correction, PEQ, nulls, etc - that's the main reason why. It's not that you necessarily need more bass, but because of the physical nature of how bass moves through the room, you typically need physically separated sources to fill in holes in the response at your listening position.

Also, by giving some of the low frequency duties to subs, you can somewhat reduce distortion in the mains, so it can actually help clean up the midrange as well.

So, if you DO decide to think about upgrading, my advice would be to look into subs, if your situation allows it.
 
So, if you DO decide to think about upgrading, my advice would be to look into subs, if your situation allows it.

Yeah now that voices are clear (but really by chance: I didn't buy those speakers for movies but for stereo, turns out voices are crystal clear now!) a sub could be an upgrade.

I kinda figured out that a sub would help the mains. My bigger concern though would be that atm I'm in an appartment and I wonder if a sub wouldn't produce too "boomy" basses for the neighbours?
 
I wonder if a sub wouldn't produce too "boomy" basses for the neighbours?
It's a real concern. The lower the frequency, the more easily it goes through walls/floors. I have close neighbors (think townhouse) and I run a total of 4 subs in my place. My approach is just to turn the subs off after 8PM or so.
 
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