Hifiman HE6se Review (Headphone)

[kwerkee]

Default v2 headband is a disgrace to the headphones. I understand they needed to decrease the costs, but it makes headphones intolerable. Agree with previous poster that enhanced comfort design is perfect for them.

 

[peniku8]

I have the same problem with the crackling. Did the replacement of the headphones go smoothly? They want me to send them the headphones to a Polish warehouse and after confirmation they'll replace them with the new ones. But im a bit worried about custom cost or other things like that. I checked and 1 of the drives is very close to the magnets. I guess it could get damaged in any moment :/

The crackling seems to be in the nature of the headphones, which occurs when you compress the pads by touching the headphones too quickly/energetically. Just be a bit more gentle with them and it shouldn't occur. My issue why I'm sending them back is that of large channel imbalance (problem in the upper mids/lower treble of the right channel).
A lot of things happened and I ended up waiting until I set up my new speakers, before sending the headphones back, because the HE400i 2020 headband is causing me headaches (it's the same as HE6se v2 headband, so I agree with the post below as well).
I still have them here actually, but will be bringing them to the post office tomorrow.
There won't be any customs for me, since Poland is an EU country and I live in Germany. Either way, there shouldn't be any customs at all, sine it's an RMA case. No money flow=no VAT/customs.

 

[artu15]

The crackling seems to be in the nature of the headphones, which occurs when you compress the pads by touching the headphones too quickly/energetically. Just be a bit more gentle with them and it shouldn't occur. My issue why I'm sending them back is that of large channel imbalance (problem in the upper mids/lower treble of the right channel).
A lot of things happened and I ended up waiting until I set up my new speakers, before sending the headphones back, because the HE400i 2020 headband is causing me headaches (it's the same as HE6se v2 headband, so I agree with the post below as well).
I still have them here actually, but will be bringing them to the post office tomorrow.
There won't be any customs for me, since Poland is an EU country and I live in Germany. Either way, there shouldn't be any customs at all, sine it's an RMA case. No money flow=no VAT/customs.

Oh so i think it should be fine but im a bit worried about the distance of the driver to the magnets. It only looks like this on the left cup. The right one is a fair distance from the magnets. When it comes to the sound and channel matchning everything is perfect.

 

[peniku8]

When it comes to the sound and channel matchning everything is perfect.

Sounds good to me.. pun intented
I'm not an expert when it comes to planar headphone construction, somebody else could chime in here. If you've experienced crackling from pressure differences (→warping the diaphragm) in the past and the driver did not become stuck, I doubt it'll ever happen. Maybe if you really slam it (physically), while sealing off one side of the diaphragm (like wearing it while taking a sucker punch to the headphone, idk haha).

 

[deafenears]

Oh so i think it should be fine but im a bit worried about the distance of the driver to the magnets. It only looks like this on the left cup. The right one is a fair distance from the magnets. When it comes to the sound and channel matchning everything is perfect.

Looks like the well known issue of driver stuck to magnets. Reverse CPR should help unstick it.

EDIT: see https://forum.headphones.com/t/hifiman-he6se-v2/9995/639

Also attached:

(made by theangelboy on Head-Fi)

 

[Robbo99999]

I'm not an expert in planar headphones, although I do own a pair - HE4XX. From some of the stories relayed here seems like planar headphones can be a bit finicky and open to error or production problems vs dynamic driver headphones. For what it's worth so far I've had better experiences with dynamic driver headphones albeit I only own one unit of HE4XX (planar), and the HE4XX is not my least favourite headphone , it's about middle (3rd favourite in my sig).....although I'm getting the impression that planar is a difficult way to produce sound - the often common high Q variation in frequency response of planar headphones that seems somewhat characteristic of such drivers and some of the issues raised in this thread. If I really had to state a claim for dynamic driver headphones vs planar, I'd say that dynamic is better.

 

[peniku8]

My HE6se arrived in their Polish warehouse two weeks ago and apparently they're having issues there, which is why it took so long for them to send out my replacement (initial estimate was 3 days). But I have a FedEx tracking number of the replacement, which will hopefully arrive next week.
I'll report back on the channel matching of that pair.

 

[csxx520]

I just compared the FRs of HE6SE and HIFIMAN Arya because I have both of them and Arya doesn't have a brightness problem.

It seems that adding this filter will solve the problem and surprisingly this even made a larger positive difference than the bass shelf of Harman OE curve.

Filter: ON PK Fc 9700 Hz Gain -10 dB Q 9

BTW the pit at 10KHz seems to be a common design for HE-1 and many other headphones from HIFIMAN.

 

[Robbo99999]

I just compared the FRs of HE6SE and HIFIMAN Arya because I have both of them and Arya doesn't have a brightness problem.

It seems that adding this filter will solve the problem and surprisingly this even made a larger positive difference than the bass shelf of Harman OE curve.

Filter: ON PK Fc 9700 Hz Gain -10 dB Q 9

BTW the pit at 10KHz seems to be a common design for HE-1 and many other headphones from HIFIMAN.

That is a super massive sharp and narrow EQ filter that you're applying there. Given that it's so far up the frequency spectrum, it's quite unlikely that other people would experience the same phenomenon at that frequency level. I'm even unsure that you need to apply such a huge harsh sharp filter at that point yourself. For instance the fact it's -10dB (large cut) means that it's affecting a fair few frequencies either side of 9700Hz even though it's a sharp filter. I would wager you'd probably get the same benefit from say a Q3 -2dB 9700Hz filter as it covers the same width as your crazy sharp massive -10dB filter........unless you've specifically identified a ridiculously high peak at 9700Hz whilst doing a slow sine sweep whilst listening to the headphone.

EDIT: the "pit at 10kHz" you mention, that's supposed to be there on pretty much all measurements of different headphone models when measured on a GRAS measuring device (eg Amir's / Crinacle's / Oratory's / Resolve's rigs), as it models/mimics the natural cancellation point that happens with 'most' ears.

 

[csxx520]

That is a super massive sharp and narrow EQ filter that you're applying there. Given that it's so far up the frequency spectrum, it's quite unlikely that other people would experience the same phenomenon at that frequency level. I'm even unsure that you need to apply such a huge harsh sharp filter at that point yourself. For instance the fact it's -10dB (large cut) means that it's affecting a fair few frequencies either side of 9700Hz even though it's a sharp filter. I would wager you'd probably get the same benefit from say a Q3 -2dB 9700Hz filter as it covers the same width as your crazy sharp massive -10dB filter........unless you've specifically identified a ridiculously high peak at 9700Hz whilst doing a slow sine sweep whilst listening to the headphone.

EDIT: the "pit at 10kHz" you mention, that's supposed to be there on pretty much all measurements of different headphone models when measured on a GRAS measuring device (eg Amir's / Crinacle's / Oratory's / Resolve's rigs), as it models/mimics the natural cancellation point that happens with 'most' ears.

I used he6se and arya for several hours today, and arya stealth also seems to have a lit bit more treble now. I had a cold before, that must had some influence my hearing at certain frequencies.

BTW, according to the diffuse field curve, it seems that human ears do not have a cancellation point at 9KHz.
The free field curve does have a deep notch around 9KHz, but I think that is caused by the chamber.

 

[csxx520]

It is also interesting that the late version of BEYERDYNAMIC T1gen1 has a crazy peak 9KHz while the earlier version has a very deep pit at 9KHz. Actually, many people have been complaining about treble of T1gen2 and late version of T1gen1. That also enlightens me.

That is a super massive sharp and narrow EQ filter that you're applying there. Given that it's so far up the frequency spectrum, it's quite unlikely that other people would experience the same phenomenon at that frequency level. I'm even unsure that you need to apply such a huge harsh sharp filter at that point yourself. For instance the fact it's -10dB (large cut) means that it's affecting a fair few frequencies either side of 9700Hz even though it's a sharp filter. I would wager you'd probably get the same benefit from say a Q3 -2dB 9700Hz filter as it covers the same width as your crazy sharp massive -10dB filter........unless you've specifically identified a ridiculously high peak at 9700Hz whilst doing a slow sine sweep whilst listening to the headphone.

EDIT: the "pit at 10kHz" you mention, that's supposed to be there on pretty much all measurements of different headphone models when measured on a GRAS measuring device (eg Amir's / Crinacle's / Oratory's / Resolve's rigs), as it models/mimics the natural cancellation point that happens with 'most' ears.

 

[csxx520]

A flat measured frequency response on headphones sounds different to a flat measured frequency response on speakers. The headphone target curves aim to restore a natural sound, similar to what you'd hear when listening to a perfectly flat speaker system (in a perfect room).
Therefore, even if the bass measures 'flat' on these headphones, it won't sound flat. The EQ fixes that.

As I know Harman Curve is a preference target, so it actually aims to make the music sound good for most people, not neutral or natural. When it comes to restoring a neutral sound, the headphone should have a flat bass because mixers are using monitoring speakers in audio mixing, which has no bass shelf.

 

[Jimbob54]

As I know Harman Curve is a preference target, so it actually aims to make the music sound good for most people, not neutral or natural. When it comes to restoring a neutral sound, the headphone should have a flat bass because mixers are using monitoring speakers in audio mixing, which has no bass shelf.

Alas- no. We go round this wheel every so often on here

Have a read. https://www.headphonesty.com/2020/04/harman-target-curves-part-1/

Some of the bass shelf , especially in Harman 2018 curve, is preference driven. But the headphone would not measure flat on rigs like Amir's and co if it was just set up to mimic good full range speakers in a good room. It would look more like the Harman 2013 headphone target.

 

[peniku8]

EDIT: the "pit at 10kHz" you mention, that's supposed to be there on pretty much all measurements of different headphone models when measured on a GRAS measuring device (eg Amir's / Crinacle's / Oratory's / Resolve's rigs), as it models/mimics the natural cancellation point that happens with 'most' ears.

That is very interesting, as I've read a discussion on Discord recently where some were arguing, that a sharp notch at 10khz would improve spaciousness for IEMs. Seems to correlate with this, since I would assume that the cancellation you're talking about isn't occuring with insertion earphones. Fascinating stuff!

As I know Harman Curve is a preference target, so it actually aims to make the music sound good for most people, not neutral or natural. When it comes to restoring a neutral sound, the headphone should have a flat bass because mixers are using monitoring speakers in audio mixing, which has no bass shelf.

I've read a paper (I think it was a Harman research paper) with the goal of finding a preference target for speaker sound. The study included a large variety of the test subjects, in terms of age, ethnics, listening experience etc. The findings were that a flat frequency response is the prefered target for the average listener.
From these findings I concluded, that doing such a research for headphones would result in a headphone target, that correlates to flat speaker sound. And I could swear I read exactly that somewhere too.

Funny enough, you mention that a mixing engineer (or mastering engineer more importantly, since he is the guy that ultimately nudges the frequencies into their place) would be working on a flat system. This might be the case in some studios, but many engineers have their own preference curves. On top of that, I've seen videos of famous studio engineers talking about how they'd sometimes bring their own speakers to a foreign studio sometimes, because the sound varies a lot from studio to studio as well.
Many studio owners also don't know, that room acoustics and calibration exists. They think they can set up their system and it'll be 'flat' because it measures flat anechoically.
I own a recording/mixing/mastering studio and I've gone through a lot of systems and lately calibration methods over the years...
I also have my own preference curve, which I put on every system I mix on.

 

[peniku8]

Alas- no. We go round this wheel every so often on here

Have a read. https://www.headphonesty.com/2020/04/harman-target-curves-part-1/

Some of the bass shelf , especially in Harman 2018 curve, is preference driven. But the headphone would not measure flat on rigs like Amir's and co if it was just set up to mimic good full range speakers in a good room. It would look more like the Harman 2013 headphone target.

Seems like you were faster than me

 

[csxx520]

That is very interesting, as I've read a discussion on Discord recently where some were arguing, that a sharp notch at 10khz would improve spaciousness for IEMs. Seems to correlate with this, since I would assume that the cancellation you're talking about isn't occuring with insertion earphones. Fascinating stuff!


I've read a paper (I think it was a Harman research paper) with the goal of finding a preference target for speaker sound. The study included a large variety of the test subjects, in terms of age, ethnics, listening experience etc. The findings were that a flat frequency response is the prefered target for the average listener.
From these findings I concluded, that doing such a research for headphones would result in a headphone target, that correlates to flat speaker sound. And I could swear I read exactly that somewhere too.

Funny enough, you mention that a mixing engineer (or mastering engineer more importantly, since he is the guy that ultimately nudges the frequencies into their place) would be working on a flat system. This might be the case in some studios, but many engineers have their own preference curves. On top of that, I've seen videos of famous studio engineers talking about how they'd sometimes bring their own speakers to a foreign studio sometimes, because the sound varies a lot from studio to studio as well.
Many studio owners also don't know, that room acoustics and calibration exists. They think they can set up their system and it'll be 'flat' because it measures flat anechoically.
I own a recording/mixing/mastering studio and I've gone through a lot of systems and lately calibration methods over the years...
I also have my own preference curve, which I put on every system I mix on.

I haven't read it because I am not an AES member. But I have read an article about it. These speakers of preference target will have a flat FR in an anechoic room, but in a common audio studio their FR will have more bass and less treble, and the initial harman target of headphone is very close to the results from these speakers measured in an audio studio.

And when it comes to "neutral", I think it depends on the mixers' set up in their studios.

 

[csxx520]

I haven't read it because I am not an AES member. But I have read an article about it. These speakers of preference target will have a flat FR in an anechoic room, but in a common audio studio their FR will have more bass and less treble, and the initial harman target of headphone is very close to the results from these speakers measured in an audio studio.

And when it comes to "neutral", I think it depends on the mixers' set up in their studios.

That is to say, compared to speakers calibrated to have flat FR in a studio or listening room, the harman curve will have more bass and less treble.

 

[csxx520]

That is very interesting, as I've read a discussion on Discord recently where some were arguing, that a sharp notch at 10khz would improve spaciousness for IEMs. Seems to correlate with this, since I would assume that the cancellation you're talking about isn't occuring with insertion earphones. Fascinating stuff!

Well, some people describe the very high peak around 10KHZ of late version of T1GEN1 as "metal-like treble", and the earlier version with a notch at 10KHz sounds less aggressive and more relaxing. So I guess it is the same case to the headphones.

As for the cancellation, if there is a cancellation, the FR of headphone should have a notch there..... If it does not have one, it may sound different to other headphones.

 

[csxx520]

That is very interesting, as I've read a discussion on Discord recently where some were arguing, that a sharp notch at 10khz would improve spaciousness for IEMs. Seems to correlate with this, since I would assume that the cancellation you're talking about isn't occuring with insertion earphones. Fascinating stuff!


I've read a paper (I think it was a Harman research paper) with the goal of finding a preference target for speaker sound. The study included a large variety of the test subjects, in terms of age, ethnics, listening experience etc. The findings were that a flat frequency response is the prefered target for the average listener.
From these findings I concluded, that doing such a research for headphones would result in a headphone target, that correlates to flat speaker sound. And I could swear I read exactly that somewhere too.

Funny enough, you mention that a mixing engineer (or mastering engineer more importantly, since he is the guy that ultimately nudges the frequencies into their place) would be working on a flat system. This might be the case in some studios, but many engineers have their own preference curves. On top of that, I've seen videos of famous studio engineers talking about how they'd sometimes bring their own speakers to a foreign studio sometimes, because the sound varies a lot from studio to studio as well.
Many studio owners also don't know, that room acoustics and calibration exists. They think they can set up their system and it'll be 'flat' because it measures flat anechoically.
I own a recording/mixing/mastering studio and I've gone through a lot of systems and lately calibration methods over the years...
I also have my own preference curve, which I put on every system I mix on.

OK I understand now. Since generally mixers and most people have the same preference, the most preferable curve=the most neutral curve, which can better restore the sound mixers want us to hear.

 

[BressonWang]

Can someone explain how to read group delay graph? And what does it indicate?