Hifiman HE6se Review (Headphone)

[peniku8]

Got my replacement pair today. Here is the channel imbalance on this one:

Thought the stuff at 4khz is so narrow it might not be a big deal. Oh boy does it sound horrendous when you correct it with EQ and then switch the correction on and off. This pair also sounds brigther than my first pair. For the mid region, where my previous pair had extreme channel imbalance, both channels of the new pair are right in between those measurements.
This is all over the place, no quality control and high production variance. I will have to contact them again about this, it's ridiculous.
I'm so glad I have my new speaker system set up, so I don't really need the headphones anyways.
5db spike in the left channel in a 2k$ headphone. Even if you consider the discounted price, it's ridiculous. I'd send 100$ headphones back for a flaw like that.
One more thing to note: Hifiman added a set of replacement pads to the box, because I had to pay shipping (30€).

 

[Robbo99999]

Got my replacement pair today. Here is the channel imbalance on this one:

Thought the stuff at 4khz is so narrow it might not be a big deal. Oh boy does it sound horrendous when you correct it with EQ and then switch the correction on and off. This pair also sounds brigther than my first pair. For the mid region, where my previous pair had extreme channel imbalance, both channels of the new pair are right in between those measurements.
This is all over the place, no quality control and high production variance. I will have to contact them again about this, it's ridiculous.
I'm so glad I have my new speaker system set up, so I don't really need the headphones anyways.
5db spike in the left channel in a 2k$ headphone. Even if you consider the discounted price, it's ridiculous. I'd send 100$ headphones back for a flaw like that.
One more thing to note: Hifiman added a set of replacement pads to the box, because I had to pay shipping (30€).

This is why I'm becoming more & more entrenched in the idea that unit to unit variation is a key element to a headphone - channel matching is part of it, almost the same thing. More visibility is needed on areas surrounding channel matching & unit to unit variation within headphone models and indeed headphone making companies as a whole, in terms of which ones be it Senn or Hifiman, etc perform best in terms of unit to unit variation, which ones control their processes. I bought a miniDSP Ears that arrived today, I'll be doing some unit to unit variation testing amoungst the HD560s & K702 that I own - I have 3 units of each for example. (I'll be using the miniDSP Ears for other stuff too, but unit to unit variation & channel matching will certainly be one of them).

Coming back to your specific pair of headphones you've measured right there. Are you saying that this headphone sounds worse when you match the channels through EQ - when you equalise the 4kHz peak? Generally, I'd say that's perfect channel matching apart from that 4kHz peak.

 

[peniku8]

This is why I'm becoming more & more entrenched in the idea that unit to unit variation is a key element to a headphone - channel matching is part of it, almost the same thing. More visibility is needed on areas surrounding channel matching & unit to unit variation within headphone models and indeed headphone making companies as a whole, in terms of which ones be it Senn or Hifiman, etc perform best in terms of unit to unit variation, which ones control their processes. I bought a miniDSP Ears that arrived today, I'll be doing some unit to unit variation testing amoungst the HD560s & K702 that I own - I have 3 units of each for example. (I'll be using the miniDSP Ears for other stuff too, but unit to unit variation & channel matching will certainly be one of them).

Coming back to your specific pair of headphones you've measured right there. Are you saying that this headphone sounds worse when you match the channels through EQ - when you equalise the 4kHz peak? Generally, I'd say that's perfect channel matching apart from that 4kHz peak.

That's a great use case for the ears. I thought about buying it too, but for channel matching my diy solution works well enough so far. Still thinking about buying it. I like toys...

About the 4khz peak, no, it is the other way around. I match the left channel to the right channel by removing the spike and it sounds much better immediately. Disable that correction and it'll sound absolutely horrendous. It's basically a night and day difference on content with lots of information in that region, like any Metal genre with distorted guitars. I really tried to ignore it, but it's just not possible. I don't mind the 1db ripple, but man, 5db...

 

[Robbo99999]

That's a great use case for the ears. I thought about buying it too, but for channel matching my diy solution works well enough so far. Still thinking about buying it. I like toys...

About the 4khz peak, no, it is the other way around. I match the left channel to the right channel by removing the spike and it sounds much better immediately. Disable that correction and it'll sound absolutely horrendous. It's basically a night and day difference on content with lots of information in that region, like any Metal genre with distorted guitars. I really tried to ignore it, but it's just not possible. I don't mind the 1db ripple, but man, 5db...

If it's a really good headphone/experience once you've corrected it with the channel matching EQ then is it just worth keeping it? If you can use channel matching EQ in all your use cases then there's no real reason not to keep it. Sometimes headphones have great potential that are let down by their unit to unit variation and poor channel matching, I think K702 is one of those cases, but if you can correct for it accurately then you can see the potential they really have. So if you're having a uniquely good experience with your EQ channel matched HE6se it's probably worth keeping.

 

[peniku8]

If it's a really good headphone/experience once you've corrected it with the channel matching EQ then is it just worth keeping it? If you can use channel matching EQ in all your use cases then there's no real reason not to keep it. Sometimes headphones have great potential that are let down by their unit to unit variation and poor channel matching, I think K702 is one of those cases, but if you can correct for it accurately then you can see the potential they really have. So if you're having a uniquely good experience with your EQ channel matched HE6se it's probably worth keeping.

I can correct it basically everywhere I'd load my normal headphone EQ too. I'd never listen without EQ anyways. But it still feels kinda wrong that you have to measure and calibrate your own pair of headphones, because you can't even be sure that measurements by others apply to your unit due to high manufacturing inconsistencies...
If they'd get the channel matching right at least...

 

[Robbo99999]

I can correct it basically everywhere I'd load my normal headphone EQ too. I'd never listen without EQ anyways. But it still feels kinda wrong that you have to measure and calibrate your own pair of headphones, because you can't even be sure that measurements by others apply to your unit due to high manufacturing inconsistencies...
If they'd get the channel matching right at least...

I had an extra thought re that 4kHz peak/dip. Could it be that the high compression of your wide headphone fixture is causing the pads to compress more than normal, thereby changing the acoustic space within the headphone cup - and if one pad is deforming differently to the other due to manufacturing tolerances, it could be that a change of acoustic space could result in different peaks & dips. I don't know if this would correlate to a potential change at 4kHz, but you could try changing both pads out to see if it makes a difference to rule out a rogue pad.

 

[Jimbob54]

This is why I'm becoming more & more entrenched in the idea that unit to unit variation is a key element to a headphone - channel matching is part of it, almost the same thing. More visibility is needed on areas surrounding channel matching & unit to unit variation within headphone models and indeed headphone making companies as a whole, in terms of which ones be it Senn or Hifiman, etc perform best in terms of unit to unit variation, which ones control their processes. I bought a miniDSP Ears that arrived today, I'll be doing some unit to unit variation testing amoungst the HD560s & K702 that I own - I have 3 units of each for example. (I'll be using the miniDSP Ears for other stuff too, but unit to unit variation & channel matching will certainly be one of them).

Coming back to your specific pair of headphones you've measured right there. Are you saying that this headphone sounds worse when you match the channels through EQ - when you equalise the 4kHz peak? Generally, I'd say that's perfect channel matching apart from that 4kHz peak.

As an aside, I'll be very interested to see your findings on run to run variances on the same headphone as well as differences between units. My suspicion is that you will find there is no one version of the truth, but I'd love to know how much variation you get between runs and what areas of the FR vary most.

 

[peniku8]

I had an extra thought re that 4kHz peak/dip. Could it be that the high compression of your wide headphone fixture is causing the pads to compress more than normal, thereby changing the acoustic space within the headphone cup - and if one pad is deforming differently to the other due to manufacturing tolerances, it could be that a change of acoustic space could result in different peaks & dips. I don't know if this would correlate to a potential change at 4kHz, but you could try changing both pads out to see if it makes a difference to rule out a rogue pad.

The fixture isn't that wide and the pads don't compress that much. The measurements are backed up by my listening impressions, which rules out measurement errors. I will swap the pads anyways and see what it does to the measurements. I don't have high hopes though.

 

[Robbo99999]

The fixture isn't that wide and the pads don't compress that much. The measurements are backed up by my listening impressions, which rules out measurement errors. I will swap the pads anyways and see what it does to the measurements. I don't have high hopes though.

It's just an idea, if it doesn't solve your problem, then you've ruled that out.....and if it does solve it, then you're a winner!

As an aside, I'll be very interested to see your findings on run to run variances on the same headphone as well as differences between units. My suspicion is that you will find there is no one version of the truth, but I'd love to know how much variation you get between runs and what areas of the FR vary most.

I'll add you to the list of people interested in the results, I'll PM you when I've created a thread about it - may be some time!

 

[peniku8]

It's just an idea, if it doesn't solve your problem, then you've ruled that out.....and if it does solve it, then you're a winner!

Bad news

 

[Robbo99999]

Bad news

You got the "exact" same result then I take it? Well, you just gotta make the call to stay or go re that headphone!

 

[peniku8]

You got the "exact" same result then I take it? Well, you just gotta make the call to stay or go re that headphone!

Yea, bar some 0.5dB changes in the 1-3k region, which the pads seem to affect the most. I contacted them again. Figured it can't hurt, they can't say more than no. I don't like being 'that customer', but their quality control is clearly lacking. Maybe they'll improve QC on the higher end headphones if enough people complain like I do, but I understand not everyone has a measurement rig to back up their claims. Still, it would benefit everyone in the end, especially those who can't measure.

 

[Robbo99999]

Yea, bar some 0.5dB changes in the 1-3k region, which the pads seem to affect the most. I contacted them again. Figured it can't hurt, they can't say more than no. I don't like being 'that customer', but their quality control is clearly lacking. Maybe they'll improve QC on the higher end headphones if enough people complain like I do, but I understand not everyone has a measurement rig to back up their claims. Still, it would benefit everyone in the end, especially those who can't measure.

In some respects it's a positive thing that the pad change made no real effect - it proves that at least the pads are not an important variable, in terms of they've controlled the manufacturing tolerances of the pads accurately. It also proves that your measurement rig is reproducible, meaning that you get repeatable/precise results. That's right, the smallest smallest percentage of people have measurement rigs, so most of the time people are sailing in the dark without the light (ha) to see & more importantly prove such defects.

 

[dkizzy]

I just purchased these from cans from Adorama for the $549 price. My S.M.S.L SP200 seems to drive them just fine.

I was wondering if anyone is leveraging the FXSound EQ app. Their website is showing that it is completely free now. It's not as robust as Equalizer APO, but for some quick presets it seems pretty decent. Has anyone else utilized it? The volume in my HE6SE's seem to be louder at the same dial setting with the application.

 

[microcontrollerpro]

Are people still having the channel imbalance/stuck driver issue on the HE6SE v2? Thinking of ordering them from Adorama for $550 but I am wary because shipping it back for warranty or an exchange would be expensive (I live in Canada). Alternatively I could get the HE6SE v1 directly from Hifiman for $699.00 which I don't think have a channel imbalance issue.

 

[Robbo99999]

Are people still having the channel imbalance/stuck driver issue on the HE6SE v2? Thinking of ordering them from Adorama for $550 but I am wary because shipping it back for warranty or an exchange would be expensive (I live in Canada). Alternatively I could get the HE6SE v1 directly from Hifiman for $699.00 which I don't think have a channel imbalance issue.

@peniku8 , any new updates from you & from Hifiman?

 

[peniku8]

@peniku8 , any new updates from you & from Hifiman?

I have a factory-tested replacement unit on the way to me. Hope that is actually the case and not like 'tested - it makes sound'.

Are people still having the channel imbalance/stuck driver issue on the HE6SE v2? Thinking of ordering them from Adorama for $550 but I am wary because shipping it back for warranty or an exchange would be expensive (I live in Canada). Alternatively I could get the HE6SE v1 directly from Hifiman for $699.00 which I don't think have a channel imbalance issue.

My channel imbalance issues were with the v1, not the v2.

 

[itz_all_about_the_music]

trust me when I say that this headphone would sound great even without EQ.

incredible left and right matching and unbelievably low distortion.

"... great even without EQ" ? No bass for $1,800? Seems more like a grossly inferior price/performance ratio product.

 

[Robbo99999]

I have a factory-tested replacement unit on the way to me. Hope that is actually the case and not like 'tested - it makes sound'.

My channel imbalance issues were with the v1, not the v2.

That sounds really great, I really don't think they'll be fobbing you off this time, they know you're like a dog with a bone - they know this & said they've "double checked it" for that criteria, so I would be super surprised if the unit you get is not spot on..........if it's not spot on, then I think you should give them a major rocket here on ASR and anywhere else you can. When do you get it? Let us know the outcome. (did you link them to this forum?)

 

[peniku8]

That sounds really great, I really don't think they'll be fobbing you off this time, they know you're like a dog with a bone - they know this & said they've "double checked it" for that criteria, so I would be super surprised if the unit you get is not spot on..........if it's not spot on, then I think you should give them a major rocket here on ASR and anywhere else you can. When do you get it? Let us know the outcome. (did you link them to this forum?)

The package is still in China, according to FedEx. I'd guess it could be here as soon as Thursday, but I won't have time to really check on it until next Monday.
I didn't link them to ASR and didn't mention anything of the likes. To them I'm a regular HiFi Joe who happens to have a measurement rig. So I'd expect them to treat all customers similarly (if you have proof for your claims, I guess, aka measurements).
I was happy to hear that they tested the unit at the factory at my request.
Typically, manufacturers actively check on social media and forums like these, so I wouldn't be surprised if they already know this is me here ranting on ASR. I already had a similar experience where the manufacturer actually went as far as screenshotting my forum post (that was on AVSforums) and answering to them directly via E-Mail.
I wouldn't expect to find a Behringer rep scouting ASR, but who knows, I'm sure many of their employees have audio as a hobby too and maybe frequent the forum
If my new unit is perfect I'll let it known and post the measurements here. If not, doubly so!