Help with speakers for a 3x6m room (400€ range)

[railthe]

You wouldn't need an amp if you bought the Genelecs. Or have I misunderstood what you mean by "amp"?

Ohhh, theyre active ones. Hmm, now this changes things. Gonna search for more about them, thanks!

I have a bit of a hard time visualizing that. Anyway:
1. Unless bass is not a major criteron, a 6.5" woofer is about the minimum here, you could also go 8" (Behringer B2031A, Kali LP-8, Mackie MR824 / XR824, Yamaha HS8), even 3-way 8" (Kali IN-8). You'd still have to interface those to your source(s) though - something with balanced outputs.
2. Any setup with speakers on one side of the room and listening position on the other is problematic - the wall behind the couch results in comb filtering due to strong reflections. Those would have to be addressed with acoustic panels on said wall. Bass would also be elevated due to boundary gain.

Mini image of the room (sorry-my first pixel art ...speakers on top, couch on bottom):

Klipsch have 4,5" but DSP that "bloats" the lows. But yes, I would prefer 6,5" driver cause I like deeper bass. 8" speakers would be too big I think, even those 6,5" are pretty big for my small room. There will be a rug on the floor, but Im not sure what to place on the wall behind the speakers/behind the couch. My wife would kill me if I tried making it look like studio, I doubt there are many of us in here who could do that haha.

ELAC DBR62?

Yes, these got my attention too, but cnet review sounds like theyre not worth the money in comparison to B6.2/UB5 (UB5 are twice as expensive as in U.S. in here!). I like the design, but Kef Q350 used to cost as much and are now much cheaper.

 

[sweetchaos]

Please don’t listen to a subjective review from Cnet. You’re better off looking at the posted measurements of DBR62, here on ASR.

 

[railthe]

Please don’t listen to a subjective review from Cnet. You’re better off looking at the posted measurements of DBR62, here on ASR.

Yea well, but I am not in a search for technology grail and perfect frequency response. I know good measurements mean better engineering, but I want to enjoy the music, not criticize faults in recordings. If these ELACs were the same price as KEFs, I wouldnt hesitate, because I really like the design. I can get a lots of speakers with a discount, but ELACs are not one of them. I could get eg. Adam A5X for 570€, T8V 410€, T7V 300€...Maybe those T8Vs would be a nice, but I dont want to master tracks or mix or work. I just want fun.

 

[Kuppenbender]

I know good measurements mean better engineering, but I want to enjoy the music, not criticize faults in recordings.

‘Good measurements’ and ‘enjoy the music’ are not mutually exclusive. That’s kind of the point of this site.

Amir’s (and others’) measurements are not about achieving some kind of theoretical, clinically ’pure’ sound. It’s about aligning with the Harman curve, a sound that years of research and extensive funding have shown to be how the overwhelming majority of people ‘enjoy the music’.

That said, Amir has measurements for the KEF 350 (which measures well), the Elac DBR62(better), the cheaper Debut 2.0, as well as the QAcoustics 3020i (but not the 3030i), which doesn’t fare so well. Incidentally, have you seen the 3030i’s in the flesh? They’re huge! - that’s me being controversially subjective.

 

[ezra_s]

@op I am surprised the first thing you say is about the speakers but not about how you plan to listen to music.

if it has not been mentioned, are you listening nearfield like in desktop or sitting on a sofa? if nearfield listening I think I would go for monitor active speakers specific for nearfield.

 

[railthe]

‘Good measurements’ and ‘enjoy the music’ are not mutually exclusive. That’s kind of the point of this site.

Amir’s (and others’) measurements are not about achieving some kind of theoretical, clinically ’pure’ sound. It’s about aligning with the Harman curve, a sound that years of research and extensive funding have shown to be how the overwhelming majority of people ‘enjoy the music’.

That said, Amir has measurements for the KEF 350 (which measures well), the Elac DBR62(better), the cheaper Debut 2.0, as well as the QAcoustics 3020i (but not the 3030i), which doesn’t fare so well. Incidentally, have you seen the 3030i’s in the flesh? They’re huge! - that’s me being controversially subjective.

My hearing is reversed smiley face, so V shaped sound should compensate this theoretically. If thats what I want to hear, I am not sure. I need a sound that would fill my room and I read Kefs are great at this. I would probably agree on buying DBR62, if they were not 50% more expensive. Price of Kef is on par with B6.2 2.0 in here.

Still, if I could find a deal I would probably go for DBR62, Joe from joe n tell youtube channel likes them a lot too, he recommended those Klipsch Fives to me. Still the lack of external dac/amp worries me a little. And external dac/amp worries me too, cause I cant seem to find a good alternative for budget Topping MX3/SMSL SA300.

@op I am surprised the first thing you say is about the speakers but not about how you plan to listen to music.

if it has not been mentioned, are you listening nearfield like in desktop or sitting on a sofa? if nearfield listening I think I would go for monitor active speakers specific for nearfield.

Yes, there is a mini drawing of the room in the thread, listening distance is approx. 2 metres (3x6m room), but I often just turn the music on and do something else, so room/flat filling sound is what I need as well.

 

[ezra_s]

For your room I would sincerly consider adding a subwoofer to round whatever you get from the passive or active speaker. I didn't think it was that necessary until I added mine..

Edit: Also if it helps, I have a pair of KEF Q150 and they sound amazing, even when I am in other room doing house chores or the likes, many times it is like there is a concert or a band recording in my room.

 

[Deleted member 19122]

Or if you are adventurous you could always bid on some Canton floor standers on Ebay
Germany,you can get various Ergo and Vento models which sound great and are furniture grade finishes and quality for sub 400 euros a pair used.Bonus is a fun roadtrip!

 

[railthe]

For your room I would sincerly consider adding a subwoofer to round whatever you get from the passive or active speaker. I didn't think it was that necessary until I added mine..

Edit: Also if it helps, I have a pair of KEF Q150 and they sound amazing, even when I am in other room doing house chores or the likes, many times it is like there is a concert or a band recording in my room.

No space for subwoofer - Im not there yet, but we have so many stuff that we will barely be able to move in. Thanks for the KEF experience, that is exactly what I read about.

Or if you are adventurous you could always bid on some Canton floor standers on Ebay
Germany,you can get various Ergo and Vento models which sound great and are furniture grade finishes and quality for sub 400 euros a pair used.Bonus is a fun roadtrip!

Dont have space for floorstanders

 

[q3cpma]

No space for subwoofer - Im not there yet, but we have so many stuff that we will barely be able to move in. Thanks for the KEF experience, that is exactly what I read about.



Dont have space for floorstanders

If you can't use a subwoofer, I wouldn't consider any coaxial 2-way: the usual IMD problem won't be negated.

 

[Zek]

Dont have space for floorstanders

Floorstanders take up the same space as bookshelves with a stand.

 

[AnalogSteph]

Floorstanders take up the same space as bookshelves with a stand.

Quite possibly true.

That said, they're not as flexible when in comes to vertical positioning in particular. If you've ever had the tweeter on a floorstander disappear behind a desk, you'll know what I mean.

 

[railthe]

Floorstanders take up the same space as bookshelves with a stand.

I know but mine will be placed on a TV table. Not ideal, I know, but its not like I have a dedicated room for listening.

 

[andreasmaaan]

Amir’s (and others’) measurements are not about achieving some kind of theoretical, clinically ’pure’ sound. It’s about aligning with the Harman curve, a sound that years of research and extensive funding have shown to be how the overwhelming majority of people ‘enjoy the music’.

I think you're overstating the case a bit here. I don't mean to open a can of worms, but I think there are a number of reasons why the Harman research is interesting and valuable, but not as conclusive as you suggest.

IMHO the main issues are:

(1) The research overwhelmingly focused on conventional dynamic speakers. It is arguably a good indicator of what most people prefer in this kind of speaker, but the samples of others kinds of speakers used in the studies were very limited. For example:

• the only electrostat disclosed to have been used in the study was a very poor-measuring example
• apparently there were no constant-directivity designs among the samples
• apparently very few coaxials or similar designs (i.e. designs which reduce or eliminate vertical ff-axis cancellation) were among the samples

(2) There is a strange problem in the Harman model whereby optimal values for SM_PIR and NBD_PIR are (mathematically) at odds with each other. Olive has not answered questions on this from forum members, so the issue remains unresolved. @edechamps has examined and discussed this at length in other threads, but unfortunately I haven't been able to find the best examples just now. Perhaps he could chime in and direct us to where he addressed this topic in most detail? In any case, unfortunately I think this issue leaves a question mark over the validity of the whole model.

(3) The model's claimed correlation of 0.86 is a little misleading when taken out of context. This gives the correlation of the model to listener preference over the very samples of speakers from which the model itself was derived. If any further work has been done to determine the model's correlation to listener preference for speakers other than those from which it was derived, the results have not been published. However, for obvious reasons, it seems fair to conclude that this figure represents nothing more than a best-case scenario (and an unlikely one at that).

 

[Deleted member 19122]

Looking at your space again,maybe you just have to go a totally different direction given the open plan,open space and all the placement constrictions but 400 bucks is tough.I'd do this but its way out of budget but would fit your space.https://www.magnepan.com/model_MMC_2

 

[Kuppenbender]

I think you're overstating the case a bit here. I don't mean to open a can of worms, but I think there are a number of reasons why the Harman research is interesting and valuable, but not as conclusive as you suggest.

Amir frequently refers to an “ideal frequency response” in line with the Harman research when commenting on speaker measurements. My point being that ‘objective measurements’ rather than the ‘subjective opinions’ of industry journalists carry more weight on these forums, and that these measurements are not antithetical to the enjoyment of recorded music.

Whether or not the Harman curve is the ideal frequency response is an entirely different topic. OP just wants advice on what speakers to buy.

 

[andreasmaaan]

Amir frequently refers to an “ideal frequency response” in line with the Harman research when commenting on speaker measurements. My point being that ‘objective measurements’ rather than the ‘subjective opinions’ of industry journalists carry more weight on these forums, and that these measurements are not antithetical to the enjoyment of recorded music.

Whether or not the Harman curve is the ideal frequency response is an entirely different topic. OP just wants advice on what speakers to buy.

Ok, well you originally wrote:

It’s about aligning with the Harman curve, a sound that years of research and extensive funding have shown to be how the overwhelming majority of people ‘enjoy the music’.

That was the part of your comment I was responding to.

 

[Kuppenbender]

Ok, well you originally wrote:



That was the part of your comment I was responding to.

Fair enough. Definitely ‘can of worms’ territory, and above my pay grade.

 

[andreasmaaan]

Fair enough. Definitely ‘can of worms’ territory, and above my pay grade.

Definitely Anyway I completely agree in principle with you about the correlation between listening enjoyment and measurements.

 

[railthe]

Looking at your space again,maybe you just have to go a totally different direction given the open plan,open space and all the placement constrictions but 400 bucks is tough.I'd do this but its way out of budget but would fit your space.https://www.magnepan.com/model_MMC_2

I read about Magnepan, but I read that theyre totally unsuitable for small spaces and require even more "air" than regular speakers.