Help with Power Supply

[Doodski]

No the Micro Audio are not Linear, they are switching Power supplies made by the Micro Audio guys, they are active here on the forum: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/smps-for-audio-applications.14307/

The only info on the Power supplies is on their website and mostly here.

This is the Thread where I first saw them @daniboun used it and had very positive things to say about them, @CamRector Has used it also and he ordered the extra Capacitor PCB, it´s all in the thread. My build wa also inspired by @daniboun Dual Mono Bamboo build.

OK. Sooper. I will read the thread and get up to speed on what this gear and the add on capacitor PCB is intended for and what it does. Give me a few minutes.

 

[vincent_freeman]

Hmmz.... I attempted Googling those power supply part numbers and had no success and only found a bunch of gobbledygook information. OK let me ask you the stuff I need to know. The power supplies are linear power supplies right with onboard smoothing caps already and no need for the external capacitor PCB? Adding the extra capacitors PCB is intended to provide more dynamic transient power output to the an audio amplifier? Is this all correct stuff what I asked?

Forgot to link the Thread where I saw them first :

"Micro Bamboo Project" : 3E Audio 260-2-29A Stereo amplifier + Micro-Audio PSU

Hi Amigos ) As promised, I remain faithful to my Diyer position ) After my dual Mono project "Bamboo" I return to the scene with a new project "Micro Bamboo" to pay tribute to Micro Audio and its audiophile grade SMPS630-SO PSU. (46V/13A or 51V/11,5A) Now that we know the measurements of the 3E...

www.audiosciencereview.com

This is the Thread where I got most information, but as said, I am a total beginner, don´t yet understand most of it

 

[Doodski]

OK I have details but am still sifting though the power supplies and the add on PCB board... will be a few more minutes..

 

[Doodski]

OK...
The Mean Well HRP-300N3-36 power supply you where interested in is a regulated power supply.
The MICRO AUDIO power supplies are unregulated power supplies.

To use the MICRO AUDIO add-on capacitor PCB requires a unregulated power supply.
So... You must use the MICRO AUDIO unregulated power supplies with the MICRO AUDIO capacitor add-on PCB.

What kind of amplifier class will you use with the power supply and possibly also with the add-on capacitor PCB?

 

[Roland68]

Hey Guys, finally got around moving forward on this, i have decided on new PSU-s and gonna sell the HLG-s.
Bought a couple of Mean Well HRP-300N3-36 , decided on the N3 variant because those are designed for sudden changes in load, these can do 350% Peak for 5 sec. They have an EMI Filter built in and active PFC and the Voltage can be adjusted up to 39.6 V , which is perfect, was planing on running the modules (2x 3E Audio 480-1-9A) sub 40 V, i don´t need much power. Was also considering the Micro Audio stuff but it would be too expensive ultimately. May add Capacitor board to the Mean Well-s later down the road, but no idea how to do that... maybe after a while...
Sill deciding on the Other components while the modules come back in stock, will add an 2 or 3 stage EMI filter to the build, not sure which one yet.

Once the stuff is here I will start a thread in the Diy.

This is my fist build so suggestions and comment are very Welcome...
Thank you guys.

That's exactly what you shouldn't do with these power supplies.
It would work against the function of delivering high power for a short period of time. In the same way, it could also lead to oscillations in the power supply.

There is already an effective EMI filter in these power supplies. An additional EMI filter at the input of the HRP-300N3-36 is a waste of money, especially if it has not been precisely calculated for an existing problem.
This applies even more to a filter at the output, which is already present and very effective.

You have spent money on complete and finished power supplies that are at a really high level of development. It requires no further investment at this point.
I know this is very frustrating...

 

[vincent_freeman]

Ahh, so this is not applicable/Useful/necessary for a regulated Power supply?

It will be a build using the 3E Audio Mono modules:

3e Audio TPA3255 Amplifier Kit 480-1-29A Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the 3e Audio 480-1-29A, TPA3255 based class D amplifier module. It was sent to me by the company in a reference design for ease of testing: The module is the PCB to the right and costs US 89.99 from company Aliexpress store. This is the mono...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Similar to this one:

"Bamboo Project" : Dual Mono 3E Audio 480-1-29A Amplifier

Hi amigos, Following the ASR review of the 3E Audio 480-1-29A Module, I decided to roll up my sleeves and show you that with a little elbow grease, you can create a very beautiful amplifier based on these nice 3E Audio modules. I called this project, "Bamboo"> the pictures will speak for...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Doodski]

That's exactly what you shouldn't do with these power supplies.
It would work against the function of delivering high power for a short period of time. In the same way, it could also lead to oscillations in the power supply.

There is already an effective EMI filter in these power supplies. An additional EMI filter at the input of the HRP-300N3-36 is a waste of money, especially if it has not been precisely calculated for an existing problem.
This applies even more to a filter at the output, which is already present and very effective.

You have spent money on complete and finished power supplies that are at a really high level of development. It requires no further investment at this point.
I know this is very frustrating...

What are your thoughts about the pumping issue with class D audio amps used at the output of the switching power supply? is this add-ON capacitor PCB required?

 

[vincent_freeman]

That's exactly what you shouldn't do with these power supplies.
It would work against the function of delivering high power for a short period of time. In the same way, it could also lead to oscillations in the power supply.

There is already an effective EMI filter in these power supplies. An additional EMI filter at the input of the HRP-300N3-36 is a waste of money, especially if it has not been precisely calculated for an existing problem.
This applies even more to a filter at the output, which is already present and very effective.

You have spent money on complete and finished power supplies that are at a really high level of development. It requires no further investment at this point.
I know this is very frustrating...

Hey there, yea I took your Advice on the HRP, seemed to be really good, especially the N3 Variant, god a coupon for Conrad and they were reduced so snagged them up.

Yeah, that is why I ask and request comments and suggestions, so there is no sense and benefit of doing the extra capacitance after these?

Thank you guys!

 

[Doodski]

so there is no sense and benefit of doing the extra capacitance after these?

If you purchase the MICRO AUDIO power unregulated power supply and use it with a MICRO AUDIO class D amplifier or any class D amplifier then you must use the add-on capacitor PCB to eliminate, "Bus pumping."

 

[vincent_freeman]

You have spent money on complete and finished power supplies that are at a really high level of development. It requires no further investment at this point.
I know this is very frustrating...

Oh yes I completely understand the Hell of buying a turnkey solution that requires no modding and upgrading... As a Diy guy the struggle is real...

 

[voodooless]

What are your thoughts about the pumping issue with class D audio amps used at the output of the switching power supply? is this add-ON capacitor PCB required?

Bus pumping is something that occurs in half-bridge Class D amps only. Most high-performance setups are full-bridge designs, including the 3e designs.

Otherwise, there is a simple solution: just invert one of the channels, and connect the speakers on that one the other way around.

As for adding capacitance to an SMPS: that is usually not a good idea. Most are rated for a maximum capacitive load (a few thousand uF at best), and you'll have to be careful to have inrush current limiting. It's way cheaper to just buy an SMPS that can deliver a few A more current.

 

[Doodski]

Bus pumping is something that occurs in half-bridge Class D amps only. Most high-performance setups are full-bridge designs, including the 3e designs.

Otherwise, there is a simple solution: just invert one of the channels, and connect the speakers on that one the other way around.

As for adding capacitance to an SMPS: that is usually not a good idea. Most are rated for a maximum capacitive load (a few thousand uF at best), and you'll have to be careful to have inrush current limiting. It's way cheaper to just buy an SMPS that can deliver a few A more current.

Interesting. This my first time dealing with a unregulated power supply with class D amplifier with bus pumping elimination stuff and you've nail'd the issues and how to fix them for me and the OP. Thanks. So to make a long story short what power supply and class D amp should the OP purchase?

 

[Roland68]

Hey there, yea I took your Advice on the HRP, seemed to be really good, especially the N3 Variant, god a coupon for Conrad and they were reduced so snagged them up.

Yeah, that is why I ask and request comments and suggestions, so there is no sense and benefit of doing the extra capacitance after these?

Thank you guys!

Exactly, and the amplifier board already has its own capacity.

 

[daniboun]

Hi amigos,

As I have already provided quite a few answers on PSUs, I will answer briefly

The 3E Audio Module has an excellent PSRR therefore any good quality PSU is sufficient.
However, I remain convinced that Audio-oriented PSUs like Micro Audio or Connex seem to me to be more judicious choices since by definition they were designed for audio amplifiers. I particulary like the Micro Audio 630SO and the Connex SMPS600RS or 800RS (800W Continuous Power with Cooling / 1000W Peak Power / 1150W Short Time Peak Power)

For my part, considering a DIY project, I would take into account 3 things: the size of the PSU, its power if necessary (in particular for subs) and finally the performance/price ratio.

Finally, regarding the addition of an extra caps module for the unregulated Micro-Audio PSU :, it is not necessary as has already been explained above and in my other posts
You can always try adding an Extra caps module but certainly not at the price offered by Micro-Audio!!! @$57.....

Extra Capacitors PCB (Fully Populated) – MicroAudio

micro-audio.com

If you want to try : get any Connex Extra caps module @ fair price ! It has no rectifier bridge on-board + two high-frequency snubbers to filter the high-frequency, that's all )
I will test it out of curiosity = in progress ))


While I'm at it, I discovered this 600W Single rail PSU on a forum and I got some very good feedback. It's a PSU with an LLC and PFC circuit + a bonus Soft Start

https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/1005004933703510.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.order_list_main.20.74505e5boqYqn8&gatewayAdapt=glo2eng

I would like to test it on a next project)

 

[vincent_freeman]

Hi amigos,

As I have already provided quite a few answers on PSUs, I will answer briefly

The 3E Audio Module has an excellent PSRR therefore any good quality PSU is sufficient.
However, I remain convinced that Audio-oriented PSUs like Micro Audio or Connex seem to me to be more judicious choices since by definition they were designed for audio amplifiers. I particulary like the Micro Audio 630SO and the Connex SMPS600RS or 800RS (800W Continuous Power with Cooling / 1000W Peak Power / 1150W Short Time Peak Power)

For my part, considering a DIY project, I would take into account 3 things: the size of the PSU, its power if necessary (in particular for subs) and finally the performance/price ratio.

Finally, regarding the addition of an extra caps module for the unregulated Micro-Audio PSU :, it is not necessary as has already been explained above and in my other posts
You can always try adding an Extra caps module but certainly not at the price offered by Micro-Audio!!! @$57.....

Extra Capacitors PCB (Fully Populated) – MicroAudio

micro-audio.com

If you want to try : get any Connex Extra caps module @ fair price ! It has no rectifier bridge on-board + two high-frequency snubbers to filter the high-frequency, that's all )
I will test it out of curiosity = in progress ))


While I'm at it, I discovered this 600W Single rail PSU on a forum and I got some very good feedback. It's a PSU with an LLC and PFC circuit + a bonus Soft Start

https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/1005004933703510.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.order_list_main.20.74505e5boqYqn8&gatewayAdapt=glo2eng

I would like to test it on a next project)

Thank you for the input, much appreciated!

I did think about Using the Micro Audio PSU, but it would have been too expensive, especially since i wanted each module to have its on PSU.

Any opinion about the Mean Well Psu-s I´ve chosen (HRP-300N3-36) ?

 

[brunes]

For what its worth, and as stated here (bus pumping occurs if the amplifier operates in half bridge), the feedback I had for additional PCBs for bus pumping with the 3e amp from MicroAudio was
You don't need capacitors PCB with that amplifier but some people add it.

I'm not sure if there is a consensus on the improvement they bring...

 

[brunes]

Thank you for the input, much appreciated!

I did think about Using the Micro Audio PSU, but it would have been too expensive, especially since i wanted each module to have its on PSU.

Any opinion about the Mean Well Psu-s I´ve chosen (HRP-300N3-36) ?

I learnt that the microaudio 630 SO would be powerful enough for x2 3e audio amp boards.. just fyi

 

[daniboun]

Thank you for the input, much appreciated!

I did think about Using the Micro Audio PSU, but it would have been too expensive, especially since i wanted each module to have its on PSU.

Any opinion about the Mean Well Psu-s I´ve chosen (HRP-300N3-36) ?

Meanwell have a good reputation. I did not test the HRP-300N3-36 but check measurements of the LRS350-36 here vs the Connex SMPS300RS

3E Audio 260-2-29A : TPA3255 / HA3588 CoilCraft / PFFB Fully differential.

Hi amigos, I imagine some of you have had the opportunity to test the latest 3E Audio TPA3255 module with PFFB + HA3588 Coilcraft inductors I refer to version 260-2-29A dated July 2022 ) Designed with Fully differential signal chain from input to output. This module seems to be close behind...

audiosciencereview.com

 

[Roland68]

Meanwell have a good reputation. I did not test the HRP-300N3-36 but check measurements of the LRS350-36 here vs the Connex SMPS300RS

3E Audio 260-2-29A : TPA3255 / HA3588 CoilCraft / PFFB Fully differential.

Hi amigos, I imagine some of you have had the opportunity to test the latest 3E Audio TPA3255 module with PFFB + HA3588 Coilcraft inductors I refer to version 260-2-29A dated July 2022 ) Designed with Fully differential signal chain from input to output. This module seems to be close behind...

audiosciencereview.com

There are worlds between normal power supplies, such as the LRS series, and power supplies from the HRP and HRP-N3, at least in industrial use. In addition to durability, even under high loads, this applies above all to the quick response to changes in performance.
There are many areas in industry, e.g. mechanical engineering, CNC applications, production facilities, etc., where exactly these skills are needed.
Purely as an example, an application that requires a power of 150-200 watts. You would use an approx. 300-350 watt power supply; an LRS can also handle slightly higher starting currents for a short time.
But if you have peaks that are 5 times as high when switching on or in between, and lead to an error or termination of the process, then you have to use a power supply with 1000-1200 watts, which 99% of the time works in a very ineffective range .

The HRP (250% overload for 5 seconds) and HRP-N3 (350% overload for 5 seconds) were made for this. For the HRP-300N3-36 that would be 1134 watts/31.5A for 5 seconds.
It would be interesting to make a direct comparison with the unregulated MICRO AUDIO power supply.
The power supply on Aliexpress from your link also looks interesting.

 

[daniboun]

There are worlds between normal power supplies, such as the LRS series, and power supplies from the HRP and HRP-N3, at least in industrial use. In addition to durability, even under high loads, this applies above all to the quick response to changes in performance.
There are many areas in industry, e.g. mechanical engineering, CNC applications, production facilities, etc., where exactly these skills are needed.
Purely as an example, an application that requires a power of 150-200 watts. You would use an approx. 300-350 watt power supply; an LRS can also handle slightly higher starting currents for a short time.
But if you have peaks that are 5 times as high when switching on or in between, and lead to an error or termination of the process, then you have to use a power supply with 1000-1200 watts, which 99% of the time works in a very ineffective range .

The HRP (250% overload for 5 seconds) and HRP-N3 (350% overload for 5 seconds) were made for this. For the HRP-300N3-36 that would be 1134 watts/31.5A for 5 seconds.
It would be interesting to make a direct comparison with the unregulated MICRO AUDIO power supply.
The power supply on Aliexpress from your link also looks interesting.

The Connex SMPS800RS allows 800W Continuous Power with Cooling / 1000W Peak Power / 1150W Short Time Peak Power and has one the best ripple I saw)