Help me decide a subwoofer for music only and high WAF

[Spkrdctr]

Go with the SVS product. You will be happier. Also as a beginner with a sub, you don't need a microphone or REW. Just play with it and don't set the volume too high and it will sound pretty good. Then if you get bit by the subwoofer bug, you can go the REW route and play around with it. For starters, just buy and play with it and use it. Have fun!

 

[damirj79]

There are plenty of subs, but when requirements are small, white, with high WAF, the choices are very limited. Box of 30x30x30cm is only able to physically accomodate 10inch driver tops and nothing more, most of the time it would mount only 8inch or 9inch. If possible, get something with bass reflex or passive radiator(s) and while DSP sounds nice and gives you many functions, note that it will apply sort of loudness function, that will limit the movement of the cone so that it will not produce pops etc. This is OK for movies, but not for the music. This is the only reason against SVS micro 3000. If you don't listen to very high volume it might be ok also.

 

[chelgrian]

There are plenty of subs, but when requirements are small, white, with high WAF, the choices are very limited. Box of 30x30x30cm is only able to physically accomodate 10inch driver tops and nothing more, most of the time it would mount only 8inch or 9inch. If possible, get something with bass reflex or passive radiator(s) and while DSP sounds nice and gives you many functions, note that it will apply sort of loudness function, that will limit the movement of the cone so that it will not produce pops etc. This is OK for movies, but not for the music. This is the only reason against SVS micro 3000. If you don't listen to very high volume it might be ok also.

I'm very sorry to all you people where WAF means small and white. For me WAF would lead me to

Elite - System

Funk Audio - We create beautiful Custom Speakers and Subwoofers with a great Line of Products!

www.funkaudio.ca

Probably in the most expensive wood veneer they do.

 

[damirj79]

I am very sorry too, but the OP mentioned some limitations so your proposal is way off.

 

[Colonel7]

There are plenty of subs, but when requirements are small, white, with high WAF, the choices are very limited. Box of 30x30x30cm is only able to physically accomodate 10inch driver tops and nothing more, most of the time it would mount only 8inch or 9inch. If possible, get something with bass reflex or passive radiator(s) and while DSP sounds nice and gives you many functions, note that it will apply sort of loudness function, that will limit the movement of the cone so that it will not produce pops etc. This is OK for movies, but not for the music. This is the only reason against SVS micro 3000. If you don't listen to very high volume it might be ok also.

Sure it can enable a band pass and protect it from being overdriven but The big value of the Dsp is to control room modes (cutting big peaks) at the listening position.

 

[kemmler3D]

Yeah, I'm well aware of finishing DIY subs of odd shapes, and all the advantages (and challenges). Below are the 4 that I most recently designed and built and that I'm running right now. The curves and angles on the outside ones were a bitch, but they turned out great, and they fit into small specific places in my small office where no decent commercial subs were going to work... at least not without spending silly money.

View attachment 282834

Nice, actually your project was one of the ones I had in mind when I suggested DIY for specific spaces.

 

[Chrispy]

Hold your horses. She is still giving me a hard time with the sub. Let me calibrate her and then we can discuss cloning!

Perhaps I use the wrong words for certain things, but please watch this clip about high pass filter and correct me if Im wrong. He is talking about the N330 but it applies to the Edge as far as I understand.

So, I was dead set on SVS (either SB-1000 Pro or Micro) but after watching This vid about a B&W sub that I can buy locally from a vendor, Nemo (the review guy in the vid) said in a conversation I had with him that my Oberons dont pair to well the SVS but more with B&W ASW608 or better yet REL T/7x. The B&W is around 620 € here in Sweden.

Damn, the more I ask the more confused I get then I heard somewhere that all subs have a certain power sweet spot. That it needs to played at a certain volume (or whats it called) for the amp to kick in and in my case a smaller driver and amp would be better?

Darko I ignore and seem Nemo's Propaganda should be ignored also (like many youtubers who do audio "reviews"). B&W/Rel are barely worth consideration for subs in the first place. "Pairing" by brand is pretty silly, did he have an actual rationale? More nonsense that they need to be played at certain volumes. Small is generally just a compromise, maybe a consideration if small boxes are needed. Stop watching/reading silly subjective reviews about subs is a good starting place.

 

[robwpdx]

I am more a fan of sealed subs, but they require more power. The other sub innovation is servo feedback, requiring, of course, even more power. Velodyne was the master of these, but they exited the hifi business to focus on LIDAR scanners for self-driving cars. Mackie made professional speakers with servo, but they are not designed for looks in a living room.

You can capture cone displacement as the servo feedback or you can sense deviation of the drive current from desired and correct the drive. That is what Rythmik does. They have a small sealed servo sub in white, the L12 White. https://www.rythmikaudio.com/products1.html It was reviewed on ASR.

KEF is a UK brand and many of their vintage products circulate in Europe used. I have never listened to them, but the KEF PSW2500 is furniture-like. The Genelec F One and F Two are out of production, but they came in white. They are expensive used.

 

[StefanSweden]

That XTZ sub works well for music, but looks are what they are. Like most other commercial subwoofers.

Here's another tip on a 10" subwoofer. Now at a great price, an offer: $240

Buy two.

Dynavoice Challenger Sub 10 EX aktiv subwoofer, Vit

Challenger-seriens aktiva och designmatchade aktiva subwoofer, bestyckad med ett 10 element....

www.brl.se

Dynavoice has entered the HiFi market by offering affordable, good HiFi stuff:

Challenger SUB-10

Dynavoice Challenger Sub-10 är ett perfekt val för dig som vill ha en kraftig och lån...

www.dynavoice.se

Edit:
Maybe goes down to around 30 Hz, which is enough to listen to most music.

Small sealed subwoofers have to work hard. I wouldn't have chosen one with a 180 W amp like it has, but two such pieces can be good. It depends on what volume you usually play at.
Edit:
It applies to the entire solution. The amp and speaker driver (in the small box) have to work hard with a small sealed sub. Increased risk of driving the amp into clipping (if there is no built-in limiter) plus the speaker element together with the solution can distort (fortunately we are less sensitive to distortion in the lower registers, but sooner or later the distortion becomes audible).
(amp clipping sounds much worse than speaker distortion, normally)

I just realized that you are a fellow swede!

Showed the Dynavoice to the wife and she gave it a thumbs up. It looks alot like the white SVS SB-1000 Pro but much less powerful? I have done some basic messuring with the phone and played with volume. At 2m it peaked around 80-85 db. Most of the time much lower.

Would you suggest SB-1000 Pro in my situation? I would rather "overbuy" than "underbuy" .. which could be the case for the Dynavoice?

 

[StefanSweden]

I am more a fan of sealed subs, but they require more power. The other sub innovation is servo feedback, requiring, of course, even more power. Velodyne was the master of these, but they exited the hifi business to focus on LIDAR scanners for self-driving cars. Mackie made professional speakers with servo, but they are not designed for looks in a living room.

You can capture cone displacement as the servo feedback or you can sense deviation of the drive current from desired and correct the drive. That is what Rythmik does. They have a small sealed servo sub in white, the L12 White. https://www.rythmikaudio.com/products1.html It was reviewed on ASR.

KEF is a UK brand and many of their vintage products circulate in Europe used. I have never listened to them, but the KEF PSW2500 is furniture-like. The Genelec F One and F Two are out of production, but they came in white. They are expensive used.

I have heard good stuff about Rythmik and in particular the L12 as it comes in white and is somewhat small. My only gripe would be buying from overseas as it could make warranty stuff more complicated.


Browsing their site now and it says:

IMPORTANT, INTERNATIONAL CUSTOMERS: US Postal service no longer provides surface shipping to overseas.

 

[Eetu]

To give you one more option, have a look at the KEF T2

Sealed 10", slim profile with only 18cm in depth.
Might be able to find one used for a very good price. Output and bass extension probably somewhere between the KEF Kube 8b and 10b but should be fine with music if high SPL not needed. Auto on/off works great. Note that the settings available are a bit limited (not even crossover adjustment) but if you can set the XO with the Bluesound not a problem. I run two of these with MiniDSP Flex.

 

[MarkS]

Perhaps I use the wrong words for certain things, but please watch this clip about high pass filter and correct me if Im wrong. He is talking about the N330 but it applies to the Edge as far as I understand.

Yes, the Edge has a high-pass filter, and this is very good.

So, I was dead set on SVS (either SB-1000 Pro or Micro) but after watching This vid about a B&W sub that I can buy locally from a vendor, Nemo (the review guy in the vid) said in a conversation I had with him that my Oberons dont pair to well the SVS but more with B&W ASW608 or better yet REL T/7x. The B&W is around 620 € here in Sweden.

Absolute total nonsense about "pairing well". This is a complete non-issue, especially with a high-pass filter.

Damn, the more I ask the more confused I get

Sadly, the audio world is filled with total garbage nonsense.

then I heard somewhere that all subs have a certain power sweet spot.

And there is a great example of total garbage nonsense!

That it needs to played at a certain volume (or whats it called) for the amp to kick in and in my case a smaller driver and amp would be better?

MORE total garbage nonsense!

For your use case, pretty much ANY subwoofer is going to be fine, and the SVS Micro 3000 (I own one) or the larger and somewhat more powerful (which is totally irrelevant for your use case) SB 1000 Pro are both definitely fine.

I play orchestral classical music over my two-channel plus SVS Micro 3000 system at live symphony volumes (mid-hall seat). I regularly attend such concerts and know well what they sound like. My single SVS Micro 3000 (crossed at 60Hz) has no trouble at all producing the required volume.

 

[StefanSweden]

Yes, the Edge has a high-pass filter, and this is very good.

Absolute total nonsense about "pairing well". This is a complete non-issue, especially with a high-pass filter.

Sadly, the audio world is filled with total garbage nonsense.

And there is a great example of total garbage nonsense!

MORE total garbage nonsense!

For your use case, pretty much ANY subwoofer is going to be fine, and the SVS Micro 3000 (I own one) or the larger and somewhat more powerful (which is totally irrelevant for your use case) SB 1000 Pro are both definitely fine.

I play orchestral classical music over my two-channel plus SVS Micro 3000 system at live symphony volumes (mid-hall seat). I regularly attend such concerts and know well what they sound like. My single SVS Micro 3000 (crossed at 60Hz) has no trouble at all producing the required volume.

Yeah, I need to see a local vendor and play both SB-1000 Pro and the 3000 Micro to see if the extra $ for the Micro is worth it.

Just one question, and this might be a strange on, but since I´ve never owned a sub I dont know. But, lets say that I buy the SB-1000 Pro and its way to powerful for my needs, can I dial it down and still "use" the sub to asatisfactory level?

 

[Brofeld]

Yeah, I need to see a local vondor and play both SB-1000 Pro and the 3000 Micro to see if the extra $ for the Micro is worth it.

Just one question, and this might be a strange on, but since I´ve never owned a sub I dont know. But, lets say that I buy the SB-1000 Pro and its way to powerful for my needs, can I dial it down and still "use" the sub to asatisfactory level?

If dialed in correctly, no subwoofer will be too loud or overpronounce the bass. All it will do is to correctly reproduce those bass frequencies that your main speakers can't properly reproduce. There's no such thing as too much power in this case.

 

[BossBunos]

Have you seen the arendal in real life? I own a 1723s and it blends nicely in the room. I think if you move that piece of furnature just slightly to left it will fit next to it. Then the driver is facing the corner and you won't see the 'ugly' black grille. And the satin white is really nice. It does require 8cm of space next to the driver if I remember correctly.
Like others have said the svs micro3000 is also pretty good. I've heard it at a friend of mines. And it will deliver plenty for music and your Oberon's. The 1961 is pretty much overkill. But personally I don't really like the glossy finish.

 

[DanielT]

I just realized that you are a fellow swede!

Showed the Dynavoice to the wife and she gave it a thumbs up. It looks alot like the white SVS SB-1000 Pro but much less powerful? I have done some basic messuring with the phone and played with volume. At 2m it peaked around 80-85 db. Most of the time much lower.

Would you suggest SB-1000 Pro in my situation? I would rather "overbuy" than "underbuy" .. which could be the case for the Dynavoice?

Yep, Swedish hence tip from BRL.

What you are wondering about. It's an easy choice. SVS SB-1000 Pro. Having said that, the Dynavoice Challenger Sub 10 is with great certainty not a bad sub. Quite the contrary, usually Dynavoice create good budget hifi speakers.

The question then is more 2-1. Two Challenger Sub 10 vs one SVS SB-1000 Pro? Then it becomes more difficult. The SVS subwoofer digs deeper in frequency according to the manufacturer, but two subwoofers can usually be better vs one subwoofer when it comes to dealing with room modes.
Then I don't know much about the subs performance as it requires tests or if you listen to them and push them hard and hear how they sound.

The Challenger Sub 10 has active subwoofers basic functions, i.e. the inputs in it plus you can change the crossover frequency and the volume.
The SVS SB-1000 Pro has (in addition to inputs, setting cut of frequency and volume) apparently also EQ capabilities. It can be on its plus side, mainly if you have the opportunity to choose at which frequencies it should be EQed. I don't know if that possibility is given with the SVS subwoofer? You can choose the slope of the filter that cuts off the sub-bass frequencies, the LP filter with the SVS sub. The Challenger Sub 10 does not have that function. The most common is that you want to cut off steeply, at least 24dB. I don't know if the Challenger Sub 10 has a 24dB filter.

If it's no, WAF, with two subwoofers, you don't need to think about that solution in any case.

Just to make it harder for you, two 12" Dynavoice subwoofers for the price of one SVS SB-1000 Pro?
Dynavoice Magic MW12 subwoofer, general information plus you can also read a test, review (subjective) about them here:

Dynavoice Magic MW12 subwoofer, vit

Aktiv subwoofer på 12 med basreflex och ett 180 Watt starkt slutsteg (RMS)...

www.brl.se

Attached image spec, Dynavoice Magic MW12 subwoofer. Sub with ported solution.
______
LP- filter:

Low-pass filter - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Room modes:
(you hear more or less bass depending on where in the room you listen and where the subwoofer is placed)

Room modes - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[MarkS]

Yeah, I need to see a local vondor and play both SB-1000 Pro and the 3000 Micro to see if the extra $ for the Micro is worth it.

Just one question, and this might be a strange on, but since I´ve never owned a sub I dont know. But, lets say that I buy the SB-1000 Pro and its way to powerful for my needs, can I dial it down and still "use" the sub to asatisfactory level?

Yes, you can definitely still use it. There is no harm to having more capability than you need.

The only reason to get the 3000 Micro instead of the SB1000 Pro is that the 3000 is smaller and less visually obtrusive (and also lighter and easier to move around, if that matters to you). That's why I got it, I was willing to pay more for the smaller form factor, and was pretty sure it would be powerful enough for my needs, which it is.

 

[Chrispy]

Yeah, I need to see a local vondor and play both SB-1000 Pro and the 3000 Micro to see if the extra $ for the Micro is worth it.

Just one question, and this might be a strange on, but since I´ve never owned a sub I dont know. But, lets say that I buy the SB-1000 Pro and its way to powerful for my needs, can I dial it down and still "use" the sub to asatisfactory level?

Demos in a store likely will tell you very little, unless a very good setup for comparison is involved (which isn't likely in a store, your room would be a better place). No sub is "too powerful" unless you set it up that way.

 

[dasdoing]

I actually don't understand why WAF has such high priority sometimes.
what about letting her throw a tablecloth over it? it won't effect sound at all

 

[A Cute Earring]

Yeah, I need to see a local vendor and play both SB-1000 Pro and the 3000 Micro to see if the extra $ for the Micro is worth it.

Just one question, and this might be a strange on, but since I´ve never owned a sub I dont know. But, lets say that I buy the SB-1000 Pro and its way to powerful for my needs, can I dial it down and still "use" the sub to asatisfactory level?

YES! My wife is happy with the look of the white SVS 1000 pro and like the improvement in sound. App allows lots of fine tuning.