Help me decide a subwoofer for music only and high WAF

[StefanSweden]

The majority of people here seems to think that either SVS modell discussed would suit my need. Thank you all for your contributions! Makes me glad that you guys takes your time and explain things that are obvious to you but not to me as a rank beginner!

I plan to go to a retailer who offers both SVS models and let my wife decide as it seems to be a toss up .. and who knows, it might plant a hifi-seed in her

 

[dasdoing]

Unfortunately the KEF is way over budget. Very high WAF!

KEF Kube 12b (cheaper).
my ex even called it beautyfull

 

[chouca]

No idea how they perform but

Sub: The World's Best Wireless Subwoofer For Home | Sonos

Connect Sub to your Sonos system for powerful low-end sound. Add incredible depth to your music, movies, games, and more, without any rattle or vibration. Sub's award-winning sculptural shape and high-gloss finish make it the perfect centerpiece for your home sound system.

www.sonos.com

The Sonos sub is for integration with Sonos systems only.

 

[Head_Unit]

Recently I turned 40 and was gifted with a pair of Dali Oberon 1 and a Powernode Egde.

Is your wife's DNA available for cloning? You could make a fortune!
(1) Consider the gray linen grilles for the Oberons, I think it would look more interesting with your decor. Then again, the black grilles would match a black subwoofer in the right hand corner if you move the console a bit to the left.
(2) We have an SVS SB-2000 Pro and quite like it.
(2a) https://www.svsound.com/products/sb-1000-pro-subwoofer
(2b) https://www.svsound.com/products/3000-micro-subwoofer
(2c) You can see the 1000 goes lower. Size matters.
(3) Lower frequencies need larger size: mouses squeak, elephants shake the ground. It's physics. NO, a 12" cone is not too large compared to the 5" woofers in those Dali. A bigger cone moves less at a given sound pressure level = lower distortion. At moderate sound levels, the 3000 Micro or the Dali are likely also fine.
(3b) Buy and try from a vendor with reasonable return shipping and restocking fees.
(4) The Dali are ported, which reinforces the upper bass, but unloads the woofers for very low bass. I highly doubt the POWERNODE Edge has a highpass filter inside (I'd be glad to be wrong). Anyway I would highly recommend blocking off the ports, which will cut out that problem. It may also blend more easily to the sub. Take it from me, I'm a loudspeaker engineer, I only lie when making marketing specs

 

[dasdoing]

 

[dasdoing]

it still doesn't come across in the video. what sets the Kef Kube apart visualy is that it doesn't even look like a speaker.

 

[DanielT]

Since you are Swedish, check out XTZ. They make good, or actually really good , subwoofers.

XTZ 12.17 Edge subwoofer, best bang for the buck in Europe?

Hi, I started looking for a subwoofer, and from what I gather XTZ 12.17 Edge seems to be pretty great performer for what its cost (a little more than 500e here on sale). Being a relatively small manufacturer in Sweden it seems they are not very well known in the US, so reviews and comparisons...

audiosciencereview.com

Available in matte white:

SUB 12.17 EDGE

www.xtzsound.eu

XTZ is a Swedish company:

XTZ - About the company, the history and the people.

For more than 30 years I have worked full time with hifi and music products. Our team designs premium products for those who think great sound is important.

www.xtzsound.eu

Edit:
You mentioned SVS SB-1000. In the video below, you may get an idea of the SVS subwoofer vs XTZ 10.17 EDGE in terms of size. None of them are beautiful, but hardly any cube subwoofers are. At least I think so.

 

[StefanSweden]

KEF Kube 12b (cheaper).
my ex even called it beautyfull

Only come in black?

 

[StefanSweden]

Is your wife's DNA available for cloning? You could make a fortune!
(1) Consider the gray linen grilles for the Oberons, I think it would look more interesting with your decor. Then again, the black grilles would match a black subwoofer in the right hand corner if you move the console a bit to the left.
(2) We have an SVS SB-2000 Pro and quite like it.
(2a) https://www.svsound.com/products/sb-1000-pro-subwoofer
(2b) https://www.svsound.com/products/3000-micro-subwoofer
(2c) You can see the 1000 goes lower. Size matters.
(3) Lower frequencies need larger size: mouses squeak, elephants shake the ground. It's physics. NO, a 12" cone is not too large compared to the 5" woofers in those Dali. A bigger cone moves less at a given sound pressure level = lower distortion. At moderate sound levels, the 3000 Micro or the Dali are likely also fine.
(3b) Buy and try from a vendor with reasonable return shipping and restocking fees.
(4) The Dali are ported, which reinforces the upper bass, but unloads the woofers for very low bass. I highly doubt the POWERNODE Edge has a highpass filter inside (I'd be glad to be wrong). Anyway I would highly recommend blocking off the ports, which will cut out that problem. It may also blend more easily to the sub. Take it from me, I'm a loudspeaker engineer, I only lie when making marketing specs

Hold your horses. She is still giving me a hard time with the sub. Let me calibrate her and then we can discuss cloning!

Perhaps I use the wrong words for certain things, but please watch this clip about high pass filter and correct me if Im wrong. He is talking about the N330 but it applies to the Edge as far as I understand.

So, I was dead set on SVS (either SB-1000 Pro or Micro) but after watching This vid about a B&W sub that I can buy locally from a vendor, Nemo (the review guy in the vid) said in a conversation I had with him that my Oberons dont pair to well the SVS but more with B&W ASW608 or better yet REL T/7x. The B&W is around 620 € here in Sweden.

Damn, the more I ask the more confused I get then I heard somewhere that all subs have a certain power sweet spot. That it needs to played at a certain volume (or whats it called) for the amp to kick in and in my case a smaller driver and amp would be better?

 

[StefanSweden]

Since you are Swedish, check out XTZ. They make good, or actually really good , subwoofers.

XTZ 12.17 Edge subwoofer, best bang for the buck in Europe?

Hi, I started looking for a subwoofer, and from what I gather XTZ 12.17 Edge seems to be pretty great performer for what its cost (a little more than 500e here on sale). Being a relatively small manufacturer in Sweden it seems they are not very well known in the US, so reviews and comparisons...

audiosciencereview.com

Available in matte white:

SUB 12.17 EDGE

www.xtzsound.eu

XTZ is a Swedish company:

XTZ - About the company, the history and the people.

For more than 30 years I have worked full time with hifi and music products. Our team designs premium products for those who think great sound is important.

www.xtzsound.eu

Edit:
You mentioned SVS SB-1000. In the video below, you may get an idea of the SVS subwoofer vs XTZ 10.17 EDGE in terms of size. None of them are beautiful, but hardly any cube subwoofers are. At least I think so.

Thank you for the suggestion!

When I read up on XTZ it seems to be more of a SPL sub for home cinema? I Could be wrong. The price is right and while it comes in white it does looks like a big box. Not to fond of its apperance.

 

[Colonel7]

said in a conversation I had with him that my Oberons dont pair to well the SVS but more with B&W ASW608 or better yet REL T/7x. The B&W is around 620 € here in Sweden.

The REL is overpriced by $500. It’s an 8" single driver sub with passive radiators that can’t get loud or low and doesn’t have the functionality of the dsp of SVS nor the dual opposing to go lower like the micro. If you want an 8 inch sub with low power that rolls off at 40 hz there are a lot of choices around the $400-$600 range. The SVS are the better value

 

[dasdoing]

Onlu come in black?

yes

 

[StefanSweden]

yes

Thats a no, unfortunately.

 

[DanielT]

Thank you for the suggestion!

When I read up on XTZ it seems to be more of a SPL sub for home cinema? I Could be wrong. The price is right and while it comes in white it does looks like a big box. Not to fond of its apperance.

That XTZ sub works well for music, but looks are what they are. Like most other commercial subwoofers.

Here's another tip on a 10" subwoofer. Now at a great price, an offer: $240

Buy two.

Dynavoice Challenger Sub 10 EX aktiv subwoofer, Vit

Challenger-seriens aktiva och designmatchade aktiva subwoofer, bestyckad med ett 10 element....

www.brl.se

Dynavoice has entered the HiFi market by offering affordable, good HiFi stuff:

Challenger SUB-10

Dynavoice Challenger Sub-10 är ett perfekt val för dig som vill ha en kraftig och lån...

www.dynavoice.se

Edit:
Maybe goes down to around 30 Hz, which is enough to listen to most music.

Small sealed subwoofers have to work hard. I wouldn't have chosen one with a 180 W amp like it has, but two such pieces can be good. It depends on what volume you usually play at.
Edit:
It applies to the entire solution. The amp and speaker driver (in the small box) have to work hard with a small sealed sub. Increased risk of driving the amp into clipping (if there is no built-in limiter) plus the speaker element together with the solution can distort (fortunately we are less sensitive to distortion in the lower registers, but sooner or later the distortion becomes audible).
(amp clipping sounds much worse than speaker distortion, normally)

 

[kemmler3D]

Getting a WAF quality finish on DIY is a tall order for most humans, but the value is undeniable (have built several myself).

Just don't be a jackass and over-do it when you spraypaint, and take your time with the sandpaper. A clean matte white finish is pretty doable for anyone with the patience to do multiple coats of paint.

The nice thing about subs and DIY is the shape of the box doesn't matter very much. So, there are a handful of DIY threads around where people have built subs to fit into small areas. In theory you can do a perfectly good sub that fits under the console there, or in a corner somewhere, even under the couch...

Subs are considered one of the easiest DIY jobs and somewhat worth doing if you have strict WAF requirements, because you can do odd shapes and tuck them into odd spaces.

Something of a similar shape / size to the Sigberg sub can be done for like $500 in parts. The FA251 is around 200 EUR and a suitable sub driver can be had for a similar amount. The remaining question is your woodworking ability and inclination.

all subs have a certain power sweet spot. That it needs to played at a certain volume (or whats it called) for the amp to kick in and in my case a smaller driver and amp would be better?

I am not familiar with this principle, it's certainly not true of all subs, not sure which ones it might be true for. SOME subs have a standby mode where they won't turn on without a certain level of input, and SOME of these subs have the threshold set too high. But in general this is not true.

 

[DanielT]

Just don't be a jackass and over-do it when you spraypaint, and take your time with the sandpaper. A clean matte white finish is pretty doable for anyone with the patience to do multiple coats of paint.

The nice thing about subs and DIY is the shape of the box doesn't matter very much. So, there are a handful of DIY threads around where people have built subs to fit into small areas. In theory you can do a perfectly good sub that fits under the console there, or in a corner somewhere, even under the couch...

Subs are considered one of the easiest DIY jobs and somewhat worth doing if you have strict WAF requirements, because you can do odd shapes and tuck them into odd spaces.

Something of a similar shape / size to the Sigberg sub can be done for like $500 in parts. The FA251 is around 200 EUR and a suitable sub driver can be had for a similar amount. The remaining question is your woodworking ability and inclination.



I am not familiar with this principle, it's certainly not true of all subs, not sure which ones it might be true for. SOME subs have a standby mode where they won't turn on without a certain level of input, and SOME of these subs have the threshold set too high. But in general this is not true.

But DIY sub is not an option according to OP. Had that been the case, he could build anything. Subwoofer under the couch/sofa, in the cabinet that the speakers are on now and so on.

...even under the couch...Example. Under the sofa subwoofer, see attached pictures (not my sub)

faktiskt.io • Visa tråd - Soffsub

 

[kemmler3D]

But DIY sub is not an option according to OP. Had that been the case, he could build anything. Subwoofer under the couch/sofa, in the cabinet that the speakers are on now and so on.

...even under the couch...Example. Under the sofa subwoofer, see attached pictures (not my sub)

faktiskt.io • Visa tråd - Soffsub

Ah I see, too bad. Subs are one of the best applications for DIY these days.

 

[DanielT]

Ah I see, too bad. Subs are one of the best applications for DIY these days.

OT:

Speaking of DIY and building into furniture. One more example. In the heavier division, four BMS 12S305 built-in. Poor neighbors, if the person who has this solution lives in an apartment building. Heh heh.

BMS 12S305 - 12″ Woofer

12″ Woofer, 35 Hz, 1600 W, 92 dB, 8 Ω

www.loudspeakerdatabase.com

None of the mentioned subs in this thread have a chance against that solution, if you are a bass junkie that is.
(that solution is overkill for me, but the taste is like the ass)

faktiskt.io • Logga in

 

[kemmler3D]

OT:

Speaking of DIY and building into furniture. One more example. In the heavier division, four BMS 12S305 built-in. Poor neighbors, if the person who has this solution lives in an apartment building. Heh heh.

BMS 12S305 - 12″ Woofer

12″ Woofer, 35 Hz, 1600 W, 92 dB, 8 Ω

www.loudspeakerdatabase.com

View attachment 282823View attachment 282824

faktiskt.io • Logga in

We need a library of WAF counterexamples like this so we can prove that whatever we're asking for in terms of "damage to overall decor", it's actually quite reasonable when you think about it...

 

[anotherhobby]

Just don't be a jackass and over-do it when you spraypaint, and take your time with the sandpaper. A clean matte white finish is pretty doable for anyone with the patience to do multiple coats of paint.

The nice thing about subs and DIY is the shape of the box doesn't matter very much. So, there are a handful of DIY threads around where people have built subs to fit into small areas. In theory you can do a perfectly good sub that fits under the console there, or in a corner somewhere, even under the couch...

Subs are considered one of the easiest DIY jobs and somewhat worth doing if you have strict WAF requirements, because you can do odd shapes and tuck them into odd spaces.

Something of a similar shape / size to the Sigberg sub can be done for like $500 in parts. The FA251 is around 200 EUR and a suitable sub driver can be had for a similar amount. The remaining question is your woodworking ability and inclination.



I am not familiar with this principle, it's certainly not true of all subs, not sure which ones it might be true for. SOME subs have a standby mode where they won't turn on without a certain level of input, and SOME of these subs have the threshold set too high. But in general this is not true.

Yeah, I'm well aware of finishing DIY subs of odd shapes, and all the advantages (and challenges). Below are the 4 that I most recently designed and built and that I'm running right now. The curves and angles on the outside ones were a bitch, but they turned out great, and they fit into small specific places in my small office where no decent commercial subs were going to work... at least not without spending silly money.