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Headers for speaker listening session(s)

LunaTempesta

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Nov 12, 2021
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Netherlands
Hi Audioscience members!

Maybe the title is a bit vague, but I need some help with the following:
I am currently in the process of trying to find a new set up (tower)speakers for my living room set up. And I have a listening appointment at a store planned next week to trial some speakers.
Now I find it rather difficult to translate the experience from shop to home usage. Different rooms, usually different set ups *(even if you ask them to match hte amps I have at home, it's not always possible), not even mentioning sales person attitude haha.

Are there any headers to take into consideration when going for a listening session at an audio shop?
Any critical points you guys would pay keen attention to when going for said session?

Over the course of my (short) audio hobby experience I've based a lot of my purchases on data found on this site and around the internet. Sadly not everything that is widely recommended here is available for me to purchase or listen.

My living room is round about 35m2, with an attached open kitched area making it slightly bigger.
My equipment currently: Denon X4700h, Rotel RB1070, Focal Aria 926.

Thanks!
 
Good morning! A few questions, if you don't mind ...
1) Why do you want tower speakers? If it's for more more bass capability, a set of subs might provide that for you, and at less cost. OTOH, that's a reasonably large room, and you might want towers for sheer output capability. I can understand that.
2) That Denon has a quite a bit of versatility and output. OTOH, the Rotel is a nice 2-channel amp, but how does it fit into your system?
3) Just speaking for myself, I only use dealer set-ups to find and reject speakers that are obviously and grossly inadequate. For the remainder, I use measurements to cull the field, then try to find people who actually have the speakers and talk to them or listen to the speakers in-house.
4) I've found that it's best to have a firm goal that you wish to achieve. It keeps you focused and prevents salesmen from leading you off-track. What is your firm goal? Once we know that, it will be easier to give you pertinent suggestions.
5) What percentage of the use will be music, and what percentage will be movies? I actually trust dealers more for A/V setups than I do for music-only setups.
6) Last but certainly not least ... what is your budget for this step you want to take?
 
You can't bring the sound you hear in the store home... Your room v their room is far too different. However - we can always look at the speaker PIR and make an educated guess.
I couldn't find measurements for your speaker, but maybe you can tell us what it is that you like and dislike about the sound you currently have. Based on that we can make some rather broad assumptions about what "direction" you may wish to steer. We have Aria 906 measurements, so I have a prediction... but I'll wait for your response.
 
Good morning! A few questions, if you don't mind ...
1) Why do you want tower speakers? If it's for more more bass capability, a set of subs might provide that for you, and at less cost. OTOH, that's a reasonably large room, and you might want towers for sheer output capability. I can understand that.
2) That Denon has a quite a bit of versatility and output. OTOH, the Rotel is a nice 2-channel amp, but how does it fit into your system?
3) Just speaking for myself, I only use dealer set-ups to find and reject speakers that are obviously and grossly inadequate. For the remainder, I use measurements to cull the field, then try to find people who actually have the speakers and talk to them or listen to the speakers in-house.
4) I've found that it's best to have a firm goal that you wish to achieve. It keeps you focused and prevents salesmen from leading you off-track. What is your firm goal? Once we know that, it will be easier to give you pertinent suggestions.
5) What percentage of the use will be music, and what percentage will be movies? I actually trust dealers more for A/V setups than I do for music-only setups.
6) Last but certainly not least ... what is your budget for this step you want to take?
1) I currently already have tower speakers. I am not a big bass head eventho I like watching movies, and I need to take neighbors into account as well.
2) The rotel is being used to drive the Focals as I personally find the sound a tad bit fuller through the rotel compared to the Denon. It was also a try out item since I could get it cheap and I wanted to mess with the hobby a bit.
3) Aside from my dad there is nobody in my circle who shares the hobby. So I don't really have options to listen at other places.
4) I really just want to expand on the hobby, the Focals were the first set I bought 3-4 years ago when I got my own place. It was a good starting point, but I want to expand on that. I also feel like the Focals are a tad bit sharp in the upper range sometimes, it's not fatiguing but obviously not perfect either.
5) I don't really care about the sound quality that much for movies. So it's main focus will be music.
6) My budget is 6k euro. Anything above that and my consciousness will suffer.

You can't bring the sound you hear in the store home... Your room v their room is far too different. However - we can always look at the speaker PIR and make an educated guess.
I couldn't find measurements for your speaker, but maybe you can tell us what it is that you like and dislike about the sound you currently have. Based on that we can make some rather broad assumptions about what "direction" you may wish to steer. We have Aria 906 measurements, so I have a prediction... but I'll wait for your response.
See point 4) - And maybe to add my music preference is female vocals, instrument rich. I like some obsecure Japanese music. But probably better known to people here would be something like Laura Pausini.

I will be testing the following:
Sonus Faber V G2
Canton Reference 5
Audio solutions *(not sure what model, the store recommend me this with my music preference).

Would love to try the revel performa f226be, but availability and pricing here is absurd.
 
Take your Focal speakers to the demo as a sanity checker.

The biggest problem is the room difference. A good store will allow a cooling off period in case what you choose just doesn’t work for you at home.
 
I would approach this in a relaxed manner, have a nice lunch, coffee etc and then go to the store ready to make decisions. Sometimes a salesperson does have something else that is interesting. Bring some tunes that you are familiar with and be prepared to have them sound different than your home setup. Ask about a deal if you are going that way and ask for a deal/discount and that does not mean that you are buying that day but it does give you a firmer more knowledgeable stance and know where things stand as you compare what you've heard there to other gear that you will find. Don't worry about walking after the demos are done because many customers do this and the salesperson expects this as part of the sales dance. If you want to walk you can say that I need to sleep on this, I have a appointment at another shop to compare gear or whatever. Enjoy yourself. It's not a test. As @Matt Holland suggests bring your speakers if you really want to shop seriously. I'm sure you will raise eyebrows and be greeted with a nervous manner but that's the best route to go so you can directly compare speakers and get what you want.
 
Bring a CD or two that you are familiar with.

even if you ask them to match the amps I have at home, it's not always possible
I personally find the sound a tad bit fuller through the rotel compared to the Denon.

If you turn off tone controls/EQ/room correction there won't be a difference. ;) The mid & upper frequencies can be largely tweaked with EQ/tone controls., Bass is more difficult if you boost eh bass because you can end-up pushing the speaker or amp into distortion. Room related bass problems are also difficult (or impossible) to fix with EQ because where standing waves cancel it takes "infinite power" and "infinitely large woofers to overcome the cancelation. (Bumps in the bass where standing waves add-up can be knocked-down with EQ.)

Of course, one may have more power than the other and you can you over-drive an amplifier into distortion. Also, all active analog electronics generate some noise (hum, hiss, or whine in the background) and sometimes it's audible. Frequency response is usually flat across the audible range and distortion is almost always below audibility unless the amp is over-driven.

5) I don't really care about the sound quality that much for movies. So it's main focus will be music.
When you're in the audio/video store you might want to listen to some "up-mixed" stereo. Personally, I like to use a "hall" or "theater" setting on my AVR for the feel of a larger space. But that can be controversial among audiophiles/hi-fi enthusiasts because I'm not listening "accurately" or "as intended". ;)

I also have a shelf-full of concert DVDs and I REALLY enjoy the true surround sound!
 
IF this is a big purchase; Buy a sound meter and determine the level you like to listen at home, high, low, most common. Replicate that at the shop. Bring music (simple ex: Voice and acoustic instrument) (large ex: Orchestra or Big band Jazz) and of course Favorites Bands and Genre. Create the listening triangle the that will be used at home. Ask to be alone with your music and have them move different speakers to your triangle. Do not listen or take directions to bystanders. Schedule a private session. Take command of the session and come back a second time after listing the the same music at home again. Also listen to the music with headphones at home which should be more revealing before and after the first session.
 
I will be testing the following:
Sonus Faber V G2
Canton Reference 5
Audio solutions *(not sure what model, the store recommend me this with my music preference).

I assume you mean the Sonus Faber Sonetto V G2? If so, Stereophile shows this frequency response:
1736552481998.jpeg

The review is here: https://www.stereophile.com/content/sonus-faber-sonetto-v-g2-loudspeaker-measurements

For the Canton, 7Review shows this as the frequency response:

1736552672885.jpeg


The review is here: https://7review.com/canton-reference-5-review/

Neither of these look particularly promising. The response is fairly uneven.

One of the Audio Solutions speakers has been reviewed by SoundStage. The frequency response is here:


1736553132193.png

The review is here: https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/i...&catid=77:loudspeaker-measurements&Itemid=153

This looks better than the other two, except for one thing; I can't know for sure which model the dealer will present to you. That makes it iffy.

Good luck! :):)
 
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If your budget is EUR 6K you can look at KEF LS60s plus subs... in your size of room that will do quite well. Try to check them out when you're at the dealers.

Make sure you listen to music you are most familiar with on every system, don't let the dealer exclusively play their stuff. Whatever song you have listened to the most times in your life is the best choice.

Even better if you can run sweeps or play pink noise and walk around to check dispersion by ear, but dealers may get uncomfortable with you actually checking on performance. ;)
 
Even better if you can run sweeps or play pink noise and walk around to check dispersion by ear, but dealers may get uncomfortable with you actually checking on performance. ;)
For technical customers that want to really experience the gear I used to show them the switchbox, get them oriented and then leave them alone to do their tests and come back every 15 minutes or so to see if they needed anything. That's the best way to handle techy types. It's no big deal and really they are not there to damage the gear and simply want to check it out on their own without any speeches from the salesperson. So if the salesperson is getting on your nerves ask if you can check out the gear by yourself for awhile and do it solo.
 
Take your Focal speakers to the demo as a sanity checker.
The biggest problem is the room difference. A good store will allow a cooling off period in case what you choose just doesn’t work for you at home.
I would've asked them to demo focals as well if they carried. But that might be a good idea non the less. Tho I'm not sure if the speakers fit in my tiny ass car.

I would approach this in a relaxed manner, have a nice lunch, coffee etc and then go to the store ready to make decisions. ~snip~
I will. I generally don't buy things on my first visit, but never went for such an expensive purchase before either. Never been to this store tho, so I hope it's a relaxed atmosphere to start with.

Bring a CD or two that you are familiar with.

If you turn off tone controls/EQ/room correction there won't be a difference. ;) The mid & upper frequencies can be largely tweaked with EQ/tone controls., Bass is more difficult if you boost eh bass because you can end-up pushing the speaker or amp into distortion. Room related bass problems are also difficult (or impossible) to fix with EQ because where standing waves cancel it takes "infinite power" and "infinitely large woofers to overcome the cancelation. (Bumps in the bass where standing waves add-up can be knocked-down with EQ.)
I assume I can use my tidal library to play there, and I will bring an USB with files along. I've noticed the EQ problems with low frequences in my room already, Atleast I never seemed to be able to get it the way I wanted through the Denon EQ software. I've wondered because of that reason if it might be better to do a proper mini DSP room calibration. But admittingly I do not have the knowledge and knowhow to properly adjust when I read said graphs.
Create the listening triangle the that will be used at home. Ask to be alone with your music and have them move different speakers to your triangle.
Good tip as well! I will write down my home listening triangle and see if they can be places in similar fashion.

I assume you mean the Sonus Faber Sonetto V G2? If so, Stereophile shows this frequency response:
The review is here: https://www.stereophile.com/content/sonus-faber-sonetto-v-g2-loudspeaker-measurements

For the Canton, 7Review shows this as the frequency response:
The review is here: https://7review.com/canton-reference-5-review/

Neither of these look particularly promising. The response is fairly uneven.

One of the Audio Solutions speakers has been reviewed by SoundStage. The frequency response is here:
The review is here: https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/i...&catid=77:loudspeaker-measurements&Itemid=153
This looks better than the other two, except for one thing; I can't know for sure which model the dealer will present to you. That makes it iffy.

Good luck! :):)
I've read the review as well. But in real world how much of an issue would that be? Wouldn't most be taken care of with EQ'ing? Or do you generally not wanna run AVR EQ software unless absolutely necessary? Besides the conclusion isn't all that bad ''Other than the peak in the port's nearfield output and that behavior at the top of the midrange unit's passband, the Sonetto V G2 offered relatively good measured performance''.

The Audio Solutions will probably be the little brother as it seems to be more in the price range of my budget. But assuming they have the same sound signature that is good to consider.

If your budget is EUR 6K you can look at KEF LS60s plus subs... in your size of room that will do quite well. Try to check them out when you're at the dealers.
Make sure you listen to music you are most familiar with on every system, don't let the dealer exclusively play their stuff. Whatever song you have listened to the most times in your life is the best choice.

Even better if you can run sweeps or play pink noise and walk around to check dispersion by ear, but dealers may get uncomfortable with you actually checking on performance. ;)
I would have to see these in real life, as from the pictures I would never consider them purely from an aesthetic standpoint. I do not think they would suit my living room, which I take into consideration to some extend as well.
______________________________________________________________
Thanks a lot for all the good feedback and tips so far! :cool:
Other speaker recommendations are welcome as well.
 
I've read the review as well. But in real world how much of an issue would that be? Wouldn't most be taken care of with EQ'ing? Or do you generally not wanna run AVR EQ software unless absolutely necessary? Besides the conclusion isn't all that bad ''Other than the peak in the port's nearfield output and that behavior at the top of the midrange unit's passband, the Sonetto V G2 offered relatively good measured performance''.

The Audio Solutions will probably be the little brother as it seems to be more in the price range of my budget. But assuming they have the same sound signature that is good to consider.

1) @John Atkinson is a member here. Mr Atkinson is known for being circumspect. Notice the word "relatively" in his conclusion. I think that choice of words is important.
2) You are correct about my attitude towards EQ. I would rather not use it, and if I deemed it absolutely necessary, I would want to use as little of it as possible. But that's just me ... other people feel differently.
3) The frequency response graph of the Canton shows peaks and nulls that are probably ( I can't say for certain) resonances. EQ cannot deal with resonance.

Good luck with the demo! :)
 
3) The frequency response graph of the Canton shows peaks and nulls that are probably ( I can't say for certain) resonances. EQ cannot deal with resonance.
Peaks could be resonances. You can deal with them using EQ. Perhaps not perfectly (depending on how long the ringing lasts), but the frequency domain correction alone will make a big improvement.
EQ can’t fix a null. And it can’t fix poor directivity.
 
We have verifiable data that in this price-range - KEF R7 Meta is a good speaker. Consider including it, or any KEF product, as they consistently measure well. I suspect you will find the difference between the Aria and R7 to your liking, just remeber that the R7 is designed to point out into the room, not at your ears (which may be a plus for the WAF factor).

Personally, I'd save half the money and buy the Q11 Meta. With slightly more tilt in the PIR, I suspect it would be an even better fit.

1736603969381.png
 
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We have verifiable data that in this price-range - KEF R7 Meta is a good speaker. Consider including it, or any KEF product, as they consistently measure well. I suspect you will find the difference between the Aria and R7 to your liking, just remeber that the R7 is designed to point out into the room, not at your ears (which may be a plus for the WAF factor).

Personally, I'd save half the money and buy the Q11 Meta. With slightly more tilt in the PIR, I suspect it would be an even better fit.

I will take these into consideration! The design here is more pleasing to the eye for me. And I won't go out of the way of saving money if I can and still be content :).
 
from the pictures I would never consider them purely from an aesthetic standpoint. I do not think they would suit my living room,
Fair enough. The main reason I have them is my wife liked how they look (compared to most speakers) so they earned a spot in the living room. But that's a decision that has nothing to do with sound. They do have a specific look. :)
 
The Sonus Faber were very pleasant to listen to honestly. More revealing than my current Focal Aria's. Very natural sounding vocals, and tighter lows as well.
But a slightly, maybe saturated, warmer sound. Which I do not hate. Seemed like speakers that would float away in the room, and easy to listen to.

The Cantons in terms of vocal presentation sounded very similar. But the speakers itself were a little flat in comparison. Did seem to reveal instruments every that slightly better. However felt a bit lacking in the presentation of lower tones.

Also tried the audio solutions Figaro S2 - Amazing what these speakers produced when you compared them size by size (and side by side haha). Very compact floor stander which produced more punch in the lows compared to the other two. Also had the same characteristic of the Sonus to some extend, but seemed to be a tad bit tighter in presentation.

The shop was very helpful as well, didn't seem pushy and gave me plenty of time to listen. Sadly having them deal in mostly (very) high end stuff meant they didn't not have similaraly priced AVR / Stereo amps available. I did the readings at home and tried to have the speakers around similar DB levels for a fair comparison.

Now I need to find a store which has both the KEF and Sonus available to listen to.
 
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