How bad is frequency curve?

[Keith_W]

I will have to come back to you later with this. Unfortunately, I haven't saved any measurements so will have to redo them later today or tomorrow. My room dimensions are 18.5 feet in width approximately and 15.4 m in length, but the listening zone occupies only one part of the room.

Are you sure? 15.4m is very long.

I had a look at your measurements. Some comments:

Green: L speaker w sub, Yellow: R speaker w sub.

The sub is wayyyy too loud. It needs to be cut down by 12db or more. Also, why did you cut off your measurement at 5kHz?

This Left (red) and right (blue) speaker without sub. Your right speaker almost makes enough bass for the subwoofer to be unnecessary, the left speaker less so.

Now the big question is - what are you going to do about it.

 

[TheKoC]

I have attached the measurements. I also tried high-frequency measurements in REW and the curve was flat, not like Dirac measurements. I am sure I am doing everything right but for whatever reason there's a slope in Dirac measurements. Anyways, I am happy with using only REW.

The distance between my speakers is 195 cm, the distance to my listening position is also 195 cm (I've set it up carefully with a measuring tape).

Concerning the Dirac Measurements:
Are you using the PC-Version of Dirac? What Output-Device are you using?

I had a similar problem when using a USB-Dac as output device (ASIO) and setting the sampling rate high, I believe 96 kHz. When I set it to 48 kHz the unrealistic downward-slope above 10 kHz went away. Somehow Dirac didn't like the high sampling rate.
You might want to give that a try if you have a similar setup.

 

[OldRaggedDog]

Are you sure? 15.4m is very long.

I had a look at your measurements. Some comments:

View attachment 443401
Green: L speaker w sub, Yellow: R speaker w sub.

The sub is wayyyy too loud. It needs to be cut down by 12db or more. Also, why did you cut off your measurement at 5kHz?

View attachment 443402

This Left (red) and right (blue) speaker without sub. Your right speaker almost makes enough bass for the subwoofer to be unnecessary, the left speaker less so.

Now the big question is - what are you going to do about it.

Sorry, I meant feet instead of meters.

I cut the measurement to streamline the process and avoid hearing high-frequency sounds. I really have no complaints about anything above 5 Khz, so no reason to measure anything about that. I am primarily concerned with sub intergration for the time being.

My sub my be on the louder side, even though I really don't feel like it overpowers the music and I can't say that there's any loss of detail. I usually listen at very moderate volume and I figure I need a slightly increased bass level for it to be noticable.

I believe most of the volume comes from room reinforcement instead of the sub itself.

But again, for some reason it feels very balanced. I can't feel any boominess or loss of detail at upper frequencies or midrange - just more body to the sound. Maybe I will turn it down a bit after this "introduction" phase, but it remains to be seen.

Also, the given volume minimizes the imbalance between left and the right speaker. Without the sub the gap in low frequencies is quite perceptible without any measurements - it clearly leans to the right. At the current level the bass feels more centered.

For the time being it's nice to explore the new sound but I am planning to buy Mini DSP Flex in the nearest future to make things more in line.


What would be your target curve and what's your reference ideal frequency response? My understanding people have different opinions about bass extension, sore stick to the flat, some prefer Harman-Kardon curve or some other variations.

 

[OldRaggedDog]

Concerning the Dirac Measurements:
Are you using the PC-Version of Dirac? What Output-Device are you using?

I had a similar problem when using a USB-Dac as output device (ASIO) and setting the sampling rate high, I believe 96 kHz. When I set it to 48 kHz the unrealistic downward-slope above 10 kHz went away. Somehow Dirac didn't like the high sampling rate.
You might want to give that a try if you have a similar setup.

Yeah. The sampling rate is set at 96kHz so probably that's the same problem. But really, not a problem at all since I happy with everything apart some bass disbalance below 100hz so that's where I'm looking

 

[Keith_W]

My sub my be on the louder side, even though I really don't feel like it overpowers the music and I can't say that there's any loss of detail. I usually listen at very moderate volume and I figure I need a slightly increased bass level for it to be noticable.

I don't want to sound rude, but there is something wrong in what you are subjectively reporting and what the measurement shows. If my subs were 10dB louder than my mains like that, the whole room would be overwhelmed by bass and music would sound bottom heavy and unbalanced.

I suspect that your measurement may not be capturing what you are actually hearing. Or maybe you like overwhelming bass like that. Would you be able to show us a picture of your microphone setup, and how you position it when you take your measurement?

What would be your target curve and what's your reference ideal frequency response? My understanding people have different opinions about bass extension, sore stick to the flat, some prefer Harman-Kardon curve or some other variations.

You are right, people do have different preferences for bass shelving. Some like more, some like less. I like less.

 

[DWPress]

Your first shared graphs are from Dirac's and it looks like the REW measurements have Dirac enabled judging by the funky impulse response.

A couple of things:

• REW, Umik and Dirac (hardware or software based?) prefer 48kHz sample rate so maybe redo some of these measurements for a more accurate result.
• When you remeasure don't put the Umik on a pillow, even if that's where your head might end up. If you don't have a mic stand then find a way to prop it up so it has some free air around it not potentially absorbing any of the frequency range you're looking at.
• The right speaker in the corner is picking up more room gain with its corner placement so I see why you make the XO match that roll off. But maybe try a higher XO between 60-80Hz where L/R speakers together better align with it.
• Dirac full range is limiting and often unpredictable, sometimes it's beneficial to go through the process multiple times to get a good result but static sweeps in REW aren't always helpful either as it's only valid for one point in space and time. Try the MMM method to get a broader interpretation of what's happening at your LP.

But if you like what you hear then screw the graphs. Enjoy!

 

[ZolaIII]

@OldRaggedDog you see the first peak that's room fundamental and as it's at 26~27 Hz seams it's long about 5.5 m. It feels to equal loudness compensation. First move the speaker giving more (right one) to even them in response.

 

[OldRaggedDog]

I don't want to sound rude, but there is something wrong in what you are subjectively reporting and what the measurement shows. If my subs were 10dB louder than my mains like that, the whole room would be overwhelmed by bass and music would sound bottom heavy and unbalanced.

I suspect that your measurement may not be capturing what you are actually hearing. Or maybe you like overwhelming bass like that. Would you be able to show us a picture of your microphone setup, and how you position it when you take your measurement?



You are right, people do have different preferences for bass shelving. Some like more, some like less. I like less.

I have attached the photo. The mic tip is exactly where my head usually is on that pillow, the same height.

 

[ZolaIII]

More from side wall if possible and even them with balance control on amp if it has one. By the way I like your leg rest. And you don't sit that high but for measurement purpose let it slide for now.

 

[Keith_W]

I suspect that with your microphone perched on your sofa like that, you are measuring a lot of local effects and not actual room nodes.

Suggest you take measurements at these positions which I have labelled RLP (right listening position), MLP (main LP) and LLP. From each position, take L speaker, R speaker, and sub. 9 measurements in total. Put all of them in the same .MDAT (and not in separate .MDAT's as you did previously), then zip it and upload.

Also, make 100% sure that you have used the correct 90deg calibration file for your microphone.

At this point, some people might tell you to forget taking individual measurements and just do an MMM. Yes, I am going to tell you to do an MMM later, but before we do that I want to confirm something.

 

[ZolaIII]

@Keith_W he needs to move out the side wall for R and he needs thick curtains on the walls behind.
Edit: I would also like to see sub on that side with more reinforcement for it as crossover will stay low anyway.