Room Acoustics Advice Needed for My Audio System in Vietnam

[DanielT]

Longts hardly has a unique sofa placement in the living room. In many homes, the sofa is placed right against the back wall and the speakers (may be two-channel or home theater, or soundbar and so on) are in front of the sofa. With the TV on the wall, just like Longts showed in a picture in the opening post:

There are tons of homes all over the world where it looks something like that.For practical reasons, for interior design reasons.

Having a movable listening chair can be a solution if there is only one person listening, but the rest? They will be sitting on the sofa. Pushing the sofa forward (a fairly long way forward) from the back wall would make the room look weird and that would make the the room feel smaller when you sit on the sofa. At least that's what I think, but okay, it's a matter of taste.

Actually, that was mostly how I look at it. Longts may have a more flexible and open mind regarding furniture than I do.

 

[longts]

Thank you very much for your excellent advice. When I mentioned my new house, I mean "I hope it will happen soon". Perhaps I'll need 2 more years because I just moved from a two-bedroom to a three-bedroom apartment last year. Apartments in Vietnam (and probably in other countries) have quite similar designs, with open living rooms connected to the kitchen area. This apartment is about 119 square meters, but the layout isn't very optimal. So during these 2 years, I want to optimize this space.

I have two sons, 5 and 7 years old, and they're quite playful . So I can't rearrange the living room. I need space for the kids to play. Additionally, due to Vietnamese cultural beliefs, we have an ancestral altar at home - that wooden brown cabinet near the window, which also can't be moved. I'm 37 years old, so I don't want to sit in a separate room to enjoy music alone, as that seems somewhat selfish. Although it's not optimal for sound, I still want to place the speakers in the living room so I can connect with my family.

My wife and I can cook together, my family can have dinner while listening to music - I think this makes music more meaningful. In a few years, when my finances are better, I'll try to get a real house, not an apartment anymore. Then I'll dedicate a separate room for watching movies and listening to music. But it certainly won't be as long as my current living room . I only started with audio 6 months ago and bought this system just a month ago, but it's a very interesting hobby. I feel joy when learning about audio concepts and enjoying music. I was fortunate to discover ASR right from the start, so I've saved a lot of time and money when choosing equipment, and avoided illusions like expensive power cords, power conditioners, and signal cables .

 

[DanielT]

Thank you very much for your excellent advice. When I mentioned my new house, I mean "I hope it will happen soon". Perhaps I'll need 2 more years because I just moved from a two-bedroom to a three-bedroom apartment last year. Apartments in Vietnam (and probably in other countries) have quite similar designs, with open living rooms connected to the kitchen area. This apartment is about 119 square meters, but the layout isn't very optimal. So during these 2 years, I want to optimize this space.

I have two sons, 5 and 7 years old, and they're quite playful . So I can't rearrange the living room. I need space for the kids to play. Additionally, due to Vietnamese cultural beliefs, we have an ancestral altar at home - that wooden brown cabinet near the window, which also can't be moved. I'm 37 years old, so I don't want to sit in a separate room to enjoy music alone, as that seems somewhat selfish. Although it's not optimal for sound, I still want to place the speakers in the living room so I can connect with my family.

My wife and I can cook together, my family can have dinner while listening to music - I think this makes music more meaningful. In a few years, when my finances are better, I'll try to get a real house, not an apartment anymore. Then I'll dedicate a separate room for watching movies and listening to music. But it certainly won't be as long as my current living room . I only started with audio 6 months ago and bought this system just a month ago, but it's a very interesting hobby. I feel joy when learning about audio concepts and enjoying music. I was fortunate to discover ASR right from the start, so I've saved a lot of time and money when choosing equipment, and avoided illusions like expensive power cords, power conditioners, and signal cables .

Thank you for your nice description of you, your family and your life.

If you feel like it, please introduce yourself in the thread linked below. It is nice to welcome new members, which is done in that thread, but I would like to take this opportunity to welcome you in this thread as well.

Welcome New Members to ASR, introduce yourself here.

Wait, did I really just stumble upon an audio forum that strives to be truly objective and not have members constantly promoting snake oil, condescendingly explaining that you need 1000 hours before you bond with your equipment or having an e-pen15 measuring contest by telling everyone about the...

audiosciencereview.com

 

[ZolaIII]

I actually liked the cabinet. If anything else moving sofa and getting rid of that TV part would actually give kids more space to play. Sure you increase chance for them to turn speaker down but that can happen and how they are positioned now. You just rearrange flowers no need even to move outdoor kids requisites from where they are now. Just saying you can make it work. I am in hause and have deticated AV room tho it's typically small sleeping room 4x3.2 m. As TV is always a problem I use projector for the purpose and manual foldable canvas for it, it works fine even it's not anything tech impressive (1080P Epson with a lamp). I have friend who got it's third child recently and plans to build 5 room one floor hause (as he is crazy he will do it in less than 6 months). The project made me cry as its all the same o, 4x small rooms, not so big living room and L shaped so I tried to speak with him about it. His argument whose he already paid for the project (even that's a pity cache in comparison to construction cost's) and how it's already huge as it is in m² which it really is and there for will cost a lot. But I am not worried about him as I know he will continue to build or buy them (even his wife gave up regarding that) so I gave up and played with kids instead. Anyway my advice is at least try it out as you still can. Have a nice time and enjoy it with your family.

 

[Keith_W]

I love Vietnam. Friendly people, amazing food, so much culture.

I think the microphone + REW suggestion was only made once. IMO this is the most important suggestion - don't try to install acoustic treatment without knowing what you are "treating". The influence of absorbers is profound, and the risk of creating spectral distortion is very real.

I have a friend who has a lot of money (coincidentally, he's also from Vietnam). His amps alone cost more than my entire system. His power cables cost more than my subwoofers. He installed 5cm acoustic foam everywhere in his dedicated listening room and tuned it "by ear". Result: his Magicos, which Magico engineers carefully tuned to preserve off-axis spectral balance, now have severe spectral distortion created by misguided room treatment. Don't be that guy.

 

[Sokel]

I love Vietnam. Friendly people, amazing food, so much culture.

I think the microphone + REW suggestion was only made once. IMO this is the most important suggestion - don't try to install acoustic treatment without knowing what you are "treating". The influence of absorbers is profound, and the risk of creating spectral distortion is very real.

I have a friend who has a lot of money (coincidentally, he's also from Vietnam). His amps alone cost more than my entire system. His power cables cost more than my subwoofers. He installed 5cm acoustic foam everywhere in his dedicated listening room and tuned it "by ear". Result: his Magicos, which Magico engineers carefully tuned to preserve off-axis spectral balance, now have severe spectral distortion created by misguided room treatment. Don't be that guy.

Apart from the ugliness of such a room covered with foam, I think he deserves what he got going cheap and not getting a company who would fix the room, regardless whatever he would put in afterwards.

 

[longts]

Thank you guys again.
I've recently purchased some new equipment at good prices and would appreciate guidance on the best upgrade path for my current system. ( Now they are on the way to Vietnam from Us

Current System:
- Streamer: WiiM Pro Plus
- DAC: SMSL D6S (connected via Ugreen Optical Cable, 1m)
- Amplifiers: 2x Fosi V3 Mono (connected via Ugreen XLR cables, using separate 48V 5A power supplies)
- Speakers: KEF R3 (Non-Meta version, using Micca speaker cable)

Thanks for your advice, I changed the speakers position and RC range a little:
- Speakers pulled approximately 50cm from the back wall
- Currently using WiiM's room correction feature with Harman curve (1/6 smoothing) applied from 35-250Hz, which has noticeably improved sound quality

New Equipment Purchased:
- miniDSP Flex (RCA version) with Dirac Live license ($370) - still need to purchase a UMIK-1 microphone
- Mele Quieter 3C Series Pro Fanless Mini PC (N5105, 16GB RAM, 512GB storage) ($160)

Considering options:

Option 1: Replace the DAC with miniDSP Flex**
- Remove the SMSL D6S and use the miniDSP Flex instead
- Purchase RCA to XLR cables to connect Flex to Fosi V3 amps
- Learn REW for room measurement and apply PEQ with the Flex
- Eventually add a subwoofer with proper integration using the Flex's active crossover
- Would sell the SMSL DAC, Mini PC, and wouldn't need Roon

Option 2: Replace WiiM with Mini PC running Roon
- Keep the SMSL DAC but replace the WiiM Pro Plus with the Mini PC
- Run Roon on the Mini PC and connect directly to DAC via USB
- Use REW for measurements and apply PEQ through Roon
- Would sell the WiiM and the Flex to fund a subwoofer and Roon license
- Concern: Roon license is expensive and I mainly use Tidal, Spotify, and Apple Music (no NAS)

Option 3: I am open to alternative approaches that might better utilise the equipment.

I know adding a subwoofer and using REW with the UMIK-1 would be important upgrades, but I couldn't pass up these deals
What would you recommend as the most effective upgrade path? Thanks for your time and looking forward to receiving your advice.

 

[longts]

I love Vietnam. Friendly people, amazing food, so much culture.

I think the microphone + REW suggestion was only made once. IMO this is the most important suggestion - don't try to install acoustic treatment without knowing what you are "treating". The influence of absorbers is profound, and the risk of creating spectral distortion is very real.

I have a friend who has a lot of money (coincidentally, he's also from Vietnam). His amps alone cost more than my entire system. His power cables cost more than my subwoofers. He installed 5cm acoustic foam everywhere in his dedicated listening room and tuned it "by ear". Result: his Magicos, which Magico engineers carefully tuned to preserve off-axis spectral balance, now have severe spectral distortion created by misguided room treatment. Don't be that guy.

If you're planning to travel to Vietnam and need recommendations from a local, feel free to reach out to me. I believe I can provide you with some great suggestions.

 

[ZolaIII]

If you already paid for Dirac licence use it and in spare time learn to do it by hand. WiiM Toslink to Flex, RCA to Fosis. PC USB to flex and you will probably want Toslink switch for TV (to switch between WiiM and TV). I use JRiver trough WDM driver and EQ-APO is free and can do the same. Get UMIK-1 and play with REW!

 

[longts]

If you already paid for Dirac licence use it and in spare time learn to do it by hand. WiiM Toslink to Flex, RCA to Fosis. PC USB to flex and you will probably want Toslink switch for TV (to switch between WiiM and TV). I use JRiver trough WDM driver and EQ-APO is free and can do the same. Get UMIK-1 and play with REW!

I bought a used MiniDSP that comes with a Dirac Live license. So you mean that I should keep the mini PC, WiiM, and MiniDSP Flex? Now I really enjoy the convenience of controlling Tidal with my mobile phone

 

[Arindal]

Learn REW for room measurement and apply PEQ with the Flex

If you have problems with a standing wave between the wall behind the speakers and the wall behind the sofa, no PEQ and no Dirac in the world can fix the resulting booming. Unfortunately the speakers are pretty prone to causing such booming according to my experience with similar models.

The the distance between the aforementioned walls is around 3.5m, and the walls are solid, expect the worst resonance at 48Hz and 96Hz. If you can do a measurement and see spikes in these bands, it is indicative of having a massive problem.

Two bass traps (600x600mm) right behind the speakers. These bass traps are made of high-density mineral wool (100kg/m³) with a thickness of 10cm.

As they are just 10cm thin I suppose these have a resonating plate or anything. Very much depends on the frequency range they are made for and the effective absorption in the region you want to fight. My guess would be, you need much more to effectively absorb a standing wave.

Three acoustic panels (Sound absorber) (600x1200x50mm, rockwood, covered with Fabric are behind my listening position (behind the sofa), replacing the pictures currently hanging there.

Very bad idea particularly with KEF speakers as these thin absorbers tend to overdampen the treble leaving the midrange untouched which contributes to an even more unbalanced indirect sound field highlight the midrange.

Diffusion behind the listening area is in general a better idea. Diffusors relying on ´chaotic´ surfaces are in general better in close proximity, maybe it would be a good idea to have a small area of absorption behind the main listening place and diffusion to the left and to the right of that one.

 

[longts]

@Arindal
I really love these speakers! However, how can I fix them a little?

 

[Arindal]

However, how can I fix them a little?

Try to close the port vents, apply as much absorbtion to the bass and lower mids in the room and diffusion in the treble. Easier said than done in a living environment, I know.

 

[ZolaIII]

Try to close the port vents, apply as much absorbtion to the bass and lower mids in the room and diffusion in the treble. Easier said than done in a living environment, I know.

He needs to turn it around for 90° and put the sub to the little wall in the middle, I almost begged him to do it.

I bought a used MiniDSP that comes with a Dirac Live license. So you mean that I should keep the mini PC, WiiM, and MiniDSP Flex? Now I really enjoy the convenience of controlling Tidal with my mobile phone

Keap it simple and functional. R3 are very deacent speakers and physics apply to everything.

 

[MinhPT]

Hi @longts
I have some gears to play with: MiniDSP, Umik-1, external Audio Interface, XLR microphone, ...
If you are living in Hanoi, you can use my gears to do some measurement before ordering more equipment

Minh

 

[longts]

Hi @longts
I have some gear to play with: MiniDSP, Umik-1, external audio interface, XLR microphone, etc.
If you are living in Hanoi, you can use my gear to do some measurement before ordering more equipment

Minh

Thank you so much, bro! It's great to see another Vietnamese guy here. I'm currently living in HCM City, but I'm originally from the north.

I also bought a MiniDSP Flex with Dirac and a UMIK-1, but I haven't had the time to do a proper measurement yet. I really need a better house ^^

 

[MinhPT]

Thank you so much, bro! It's great to see another Vietnamese guy here. I'm currently living in HCM City, but I'm originally from the north.

I also bought a MiniDSP Flex with Dirac and a UMIK-1, but I haven't had the time to do a proper measurement yet. I really need a better house ^^

Nice to meet you here.
With MiniDSP, UMIK-1 and Dirac live, you can have better room correction easily in half an hour without much room treatment.
Play with these gear sooner you get experience sooner. Let have experience for a new house.